Facebook discussion on the validity of biblical scripture, in relation to Nile Valley Spirituality from October 10-12 2010
original link: [1] {{#ev:youtube|gVXB1hHKmD0|400|left}}
- Abrahamic Religion Afrikan Spirituality
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Reana Love:Thats good she is telling the truth, but are those characters she named really real or were they the Egyptians with European names. Council of Nicea 325 tells it all.
Sunday at 11:19am
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Black Home Schoolers: Yes the names in the bible are European names but the Hebrew names are different. We are not Egyptians but Hebrews. We have been taught that the Egyptians are the only black heritage when that is not the case. There are scriptures that have the real and true Hebraic names not the Names assigned by Europe. For instance Eve is actually Chava. Sunday at 11:25am2
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Kinshasa Kelsey Manu Is the bible supposed to be reliable source of factual information? Sunday at 11:39am
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Maliki Matari:That has always been my question. Courts dont even allow tampered pieces of evidence into hearing. I am definitely not going to base my life off of one.
But I understand the sentiment......... Sunday at 11:44am
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Black Home Schoolers: It's not a secret that the bible has been tampered with but this is why we must do our own research. The truth is out there and we must study to show ourselves approved. Our Native tongue and heritage Hebrew can be learned just like french or spanish. Just through study we have been able to uncover some of the lies of King James. You'd be surprised at what one can uncover if you do your own research. Sunday at 11:45am
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Kinshasa Kelsey Manu Ok. So... Is hebrew an ancient language? Just as ancient as black people? Sunday at 11:48am
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Black Home Schoolers: The problem with most people is they read the bible but they don't study it. Just like with any other historical text, things must be research, picked apart and deciphered. This is what we and many of our people have set out to do. Many of our people such as the Lemba tribe in Africa have maintained a rich Hebrew culture despite the attempts by whites to destroy it. Look them up it is astounding. Sunday at 11:48am
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Black Home Schoolers: Kinshasa here is a link to the Lemba Tribe. Sunday at 11:51am {{#ev:youtube|VQYb0hIIIWg|200|left}}
+ Blackness Nevaeh: HER POINT WAS CLEAR!!!AND SHE WHITE!!! Sunday at 11:57am2
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Black Home Schoolers: Yes Blackness very clear. Unfortunately we will sometimes accept information from a white voice before we accept it from our own. She is not the only one speaking on this topic. There are other whites who are uncovering more of the true historical viewpoints. Sunday at 12:00pm2
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Blackness Nevaeh: YES AND SADLY TO SAY WE DNT TRUST EACH ENOUGH TO CHANGE,TO BETTER,TO READ AND OPEN OUR EYE TO REALITY...I WORRY ABOUT THE BABIES MORE THAN ANYTHING.. Sunday at 12:02pm
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Black Home Schoolers: Some of our students from the neighborhood were taught in public school that slavery was just blacks picking cotton. They were brought to tears in our school when we gave them the real scoop. They didn't know what really happened. Now that we are teaching them of their lives before slavery, they are eager to learn and happy to know that our heritage is not that of our white slave masters. Sunday at 12:07pm2
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Jay Talapaton Clarkson truth over colour.... Sunday at 12:45pm
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Black Home Schoolers: For sure Jay. All of history has been white washed so it stands to reason that white is a recent phenomenon. Because it is recent and they kind find themselves in ancient times as rulers or original people they have to whitewash the truth and hide our heritage from us. Sunday at 1:04pm
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Kay Shabazz: WIth regards to the BIblical scriptures, I am not sure I believe her analysis. I happen to accept the idea of the original Black Hebrelites because I have learned the history of the curse which was placed upon the Hebrews.I am also acquaint...ed with the history of the Lemba.But, I also know that within even the most animist Black ribes what we call traditional Hebrew rituals exist,such as circumcision. My point of diversion is that Esau was the father of the Arabs.Is it not a historical fact that the father of the Arabs was in fact Negroid.See More Sunday at 1:19pm
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Black Home Schoolers: Kay, the Esau part of the puzzle is one that has me still in wonder. I know that Ishmael is also a father of the arabs because his mother Hagar was an Egyptian so that means that the Original Arabs are indeed black. However, the biblical ...description of Esau being red, hairy and hated by Yah has me wondering. It seems as though the anger of the red (white) man seems to be consistent with the anger Esau held against his brother Jacob. The scripture says that Rebecca had 2 nations or manner of people within her wound. Esau probably looked like the white child that was born to that Nigerian couple a few months back. Though his parents were Negroid, he came out red (blood seen through his skin). They described him that way because it wasn't a common thing to see but having black babies were.See More Sunday at 1:35pm2
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Black Home Schoolers
The first problem with your world view is that it is conceptually incarcerated in an historically baseless, an obsolete text; 'The Holy Bible'; therefore as a result of this, all of your other assertions are equally c...onfounded. The 'Lemba' story is silly propaganda perpetuated by whites seeking to validate 'Jewish' existence. Like the Ga of Ghana (home of my Mother) they clutch to an identity falsely identified by whites for purely economic purposes. The 'DNA' affiliation is not even worth commenting on. DNA interpretations are subjective. This is the reason they carry such weight in our society...those in power can interpret the findings to perpetuate their world view...and they do. Just ask the white supremast James Watson, discoverer of DNA, who uses the science to 'prove' the inferiority of blacks: http://lastrow.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/dr-james-watson-makes-regrettable-comments/
Let's put things in perspestive and dispense with the Bible as it is a definitively proven plagiarized work and cannot nor will not substantiate any of it's claims. Tell the compilers of that work known as the 'Holy Bible' that the next time you steal someone's literature (in this case the literature of the Africans of ANCIENT EGYPT) be sure to destroy ALL the EVIDENCE before claiming it as your own 'authorship' of an 'originally', 'inspired' work. And remind them to come up with a better excuse for destroying what evidence they did destroy in Africa, than blaming Ceasar and or Zenobia of Palmyra and the Roman Emperor Aurelian, in the second half of the third century. When you tell one lie you have to construct a synagogue full of them to cover up the first one.See More Sunday at 4:28pmKinshasa Kelsey Manu .
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Black Home Schoolers: Thanks for your comment Shakka, but it don't feel that the word of God is obsolete although I do believe it has been tampered with by Eurocentrist. The Lemba didn't need the whites to tell them who they were for they have known from the ver...y beginning. the claims of white Jews todays are baseless as they try to link themselves to our Hebrew heritage when if we go back far enough we all come from one blood so of course it's absurd to a certain degree. The fact that the Lemba doesn't look anything like the false fake Jews in Israel today shows that the okie doke has been pulled on the world. That still doesn't erase who we are a s a nation.See More Sunday at 5:19pm
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Black Home Schoolers: Jewish vs Hebrew: “This is an important distinction to understand—the Lemba do not consider themselves Jewish but rather descendents of the ancient Israelites. They are Hebrews, since Jews and Judaism didn’t appear until after the invasion ...which sent the ‘Lost Tribes’ into exile. In a community of African tribes which practice very different religious beliefs, the Lemba today have kept certain traditions which are Hebraic in origin.”
http://hiddenisrael.com/archives/111 Read the full article hereSee More Sunday at 5:27pm
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Kinshasa Kelsey Manu Wow. Shakka's got me on this one..... THANK YOU! I was lost until you came. lol! Sunday at 6:07pm
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Black Home Schoolers
1."Thanks for your comment Shakka"
You are very, very welcome ... 2."but it don't feel that the word of God is obsolete"
Neither do I...unfortunately the Bible is not God's Word. It was created by Greeks in Ptolemaic Egypt in the 3rd century BCE. Greeks cannot be spokesperson's for God where Black people are concerned.
3."although I do believe it has been tampered with by Eurocentrist."
it was more than just 'tampered with'. They created it. While true the Greeks are not the authors of much of the literature they've attempted to pass off as 'Jewish', they are responsible for the plagiarization of the Egyptian documents from which they compiled and edited their 'Bible'. The 'original' Bible is no less corrupt and as confounded as it's successors. It was created in subterfuge from it's inception.
4."The Lemba didn't need the whites to tell them who they were for they have known from the very beginning"
The Lemba have no written tradition of what they claim. If so...name their text. You can't. Why? It doesnt exist. The only thing the Lemba may rightfully claim (speculatively speaking) is the same thing a sundry of other African ethnic groups can claim; that they once occupied much of what today is misnomered as the 'Middle East'. This in no way makes them Hebrew or Jewish in any sense of the terms as both are fictitious and manufactured identities.
5."the claims of white Jews todays are baseless as they try to link themselves to our Hebrew heritage"
The claims of the Europeans are no less baseless than are the claims of Black people who self identify with a ficticious group of people borne/born of 'biblical literature' only.
6. "when if we go back far enough we all come from one blood so of course it's absurd to a certain degree."
It's absurd ...period.
7. "The fact that the Lemba doesn't look anything like the false fake Jews in Israel today"
All jews are false and fake as their identity is a manufactured one be they black or white or anything else in between. These are just the facts.
8. "shows that the okie doke has been pulled on the world. That still doesn't erase who we are a s a nation."
Yes the "okie doke" has been successfully pulled over the world, but unfortunately there are those of us who would still self identify with this same "okie doke".See More Sunday at 6:11pm
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Kay Shabazz: @ Homeschoolers, it is Ishamel who is considered the progenitor of the Arabs.You were correct. @Shakka, I understand your deconstruction of the proposed hypothesis.However,I am wondering what your perspective is. I,although not a Christian..., do bare witness that a legacy of books once considered part of the Bible existed in mass.These books called the apocrophyl scripts pre date the Roman conversions or Greek conversions to Christianity, and thus do not include Greco-Roman transliterations. The descendetns of Israel are in fact real, and are they not founded in the text of the Dead Sea Scroll, The Apocrahyl text, and The Quran . There are also hyroglypic references to this foreign race within Egypt.The Semantics of Jewishness is less important o me.I am simply interested in your precise view ,in relation to this matter.See More Sunday at 6:21pm
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Black Home Schoolers
1."Jewish vs Hebrew: “This is an important distinction to understand—the Lemba do not consider themselves Jewish but rather descendents of the ancient Israelites".
If I consider myself one of the 'Super Friends', does t...hat make it so? What the Lemba consider themselves and what the Lemba actually are, are not necessarily one of the same. Without serious documented proof it's nothing more than hyperbole catering to the fantasies of others....in this case European Jews who can't find any proof of their Ancestral existence in Palestine so they seek to validate their silly stories on the sole existence of an ethnic group which lacks the means to substantiate ANY of their own claims. They can barely pay for village wells, so of course in the interest of European Jewry, 'verification' is made readily available by the same people who kidnapped us from Africa in the first place....Jews. There's real 'scholarship' for ya huh? SMH
2."They are Hebrews, since Jews and Judaism didn’t appear until after the invasion which sent the ‘Lost Tribes’ into exile.
The term 'Hebrew' is itself a ficticious term and implies absolutely nothing. The term 'Jew' is of eastern European extraction and is a corruption of the term 'Yid' hence 'Yiddish'...later corrupted to mean 'Jewish' as the 'Y' was replaced by the 'J' and the attendant letters 'e' and 'w' are simply 'enablers' to render the word intelligible.
3."In a community of African tribes which practice very different religious beliefs, the Lemba today have kept certain traditions which are Hebraic in origin."
Read the book : "Hebrewisms of West Africa: Fom Nile to Niger with the Jews" By Joseph P Williams (publ. 1930), (I have an original copy in my hands as we speak, as I own a master library) (http://www.amazon.com/Hebrewisms-West-Africa-Joseph-Williams/dp/0766157342) in which the author extensively illustrates how virtually 'all' of the inhabitants (particularly the Ashanti of the Akan people to which my Mother belongs) retain customs that are definitively 'Hebraic' in origin. White people have a particular nasty habit of defining things they don't understand by only the nomenclatures they themselves are familiar with. Hence we still call the Aborigine of this country ...'Indians'. Time to stop following behind the least informed.See More Sunday at 6:38pm
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kay Shabazz:
1.@ Homeschoolers, it is Ishamel who is considered the progenitor of the Arabs.You were correct."
Yes correct in that one ficticious entity gave 'birth' to another entity equally ficticious. ... 2.@Shakka, I understand your deconstruction of the proposed hypothesis.However,I am wondering what your perspective is. I,although not a Christian, do bare witness that a legacy of books once considered part of the Bible existed in mass.These books called the apocrophyl scripts pre date the Roman conversions or Greek conversions to Christianity..."
You make no reference to what 'apocrophyl script's' you refer to as any script can be referred to as such. The term simply means:
apocryphal |əˈpäkrəfəl| adjective (of a story or statement) of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true : an apocryphal story about a former president. See note at spurious . • (also Apocryphal) of or belonging to the Apocrypha : the Apocryphal Gospel of Thomas.
New Oxford American Dictionary
therefore any scripts you are referring to are just as false ('doubtful authenticity', see above) as any other you've thus far based your claim on.
3. "and thus do not include Greco-Roman transliterations."
As they are false and of 'doubtful authenticity' their date is not a matter of relevance unless you wish to debate which lies came first.
4. "The descendetns of Israel are in fact real"
I never said they weren't.
5. "and are they not founded in the text of the Dead Sea Scroll, The Apocrahyl text, and The Quran"
It matters not if they are FALSE and of DOUBTFUL AUTHENTICITY.
apocryphal |əˈpäkrəfəl| adjective (of a story or statement of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true)
This is your 'proof' of something? Youre going to have to come better than that. My standards are much higher than "a story or statement of doubtful authenticity, although widely circulated as being true. Where I come from we call that 'Myth'.
6. "There are also hyroglypic references to this foreign race within Egypt".
When you let others miseducate you, you run the risk of repeating their same folly. 'Israel' is not mentioned as a 'race' on the Merneptah stelea of which you refer, they are mentioned as a polity only. Imagination and fact are two different species of being I recommend differentiating between when consulting the historical record.
7. "The Semantics of Jewishness is less important o me.I am simply interested in your precise view ,in relation to this matter."
I hope I've furnished you with that.See More Sunday at 7:08pm2
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Black Home Schoolers: Shakka, lack of documentation on the part of the Lemba does not discredit their identity. Your disapproval of biblical text does not make it obsolete. The Egyptian heritage of the black races has also been tainted by the white man but that ...doesn't make it any less a black culture. I understand your view of you but that is as far as it goes. If I believe that I am Hebrew based on documented evidence, fulfilled prophecy and research and the Lemba believe the same thing based on centuries of just living and holding on to their culture then so be it. You give the white man too much credit as it relates to the Lemba. What you are suggesting is that some group of Europeans taught these black people how to live, speak and adhere to an ancient culture. I say, I think not.See More Sunday at 7:08pm2
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Black Home Schoolers: Shakka, I am curious to know what proof you have other than your own opinion that the Lemba is not an authentic ancient tribe that has held on to ancient beliefs and practices. What proof do you have that their ancient Hebrew traditions were taught to them by some white clan and not traditions passed down by their ancestors. Lastly, do you feel that the white race has a different origin and blood than the black races, if so what is that origin? Just curious. Sunday at 7:15pm2
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Black Home Schoolers
1."Shakka, lack of documentation on the part of the Lemba does not discredit their identity."
It definitively discredits the attempt to establish the 'Jewishness' of their identity as a forgone conclusion or even more ...importantly...as a fact. It is still clothed in the garb of 'wishful thinking'. Now that...is a fact.
2."Your disapproval of biblical text does not make it obsolete."
I never said it did as my refutation of it is not predicated on 'my' disapproval. It is predicated solely on, and by the historical record. Nothing more, nothing less.
3."The Egyptian heritage of the black races has also been tainted by the white man but that doesn't make it any less a black culture."
The identity of the Ancient Egyptians is a matter of heavily documented authoritative e.v.i.d.e.n.c.e. It needs not my help. A fictitious manufactured identity of a people attested to in Biblical literature only is completely another matter altogether. The two cannot be equated. The characters in 'Madea Goes to Jail' are all black. Does this make them real? Get the point?
4."I understand your view of you but that is as far as it goes. If I believe that I am Hebrew based on documented evidence,"
You have none
5. "....fulfilled prophecy"
Is that apart of your homeschool curriculum...'fulfilled prophesy'?
6. "and research"
None of which you posited thus far.
7. "and the Lemba believe the same thing based on centuries of just living and holding on to their culture then so be it."
Don't recall trying to deprive anyone of believing as they see fit. As I recall we were discussing, 'proof', 'evidence' and 'documentation' none of which have anything whatsoever to do with 'belief'. The Bible is a 'document', one which I justifiably called into question.
8. "You give the white man too much credit as it relates to the Lemba."
No...I do not. I know the white man's nature and ours as well when it comes to culpability where he is concerned. His wealth and his access seduce even the best of us.
9. "What you are suggesting is that some group of Europeans taught these black people how to live, speak and adhere to an ancient culture."
What I am saying is that people do what they do for reasons known only to them. Proving historical basis is a whole different species all together. Thus far you have failed to do so...on any grounds whatsoever. I too homeschool my child as well and I can assure that "....fulfilled prophecy" is not apart of his curriculum.
10 "I say, I think not."
I wouldn't anticipate you doing so (smile). No hard feelings.See More Sunday at 7:35pm2
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Black Home Schoolers: No hard feelings here either, however within this blue backdrop and black text printed on our computer screens, no one has presented proof of anything. We all have stated our opinions and haven't provided any documentation. If you are ref...erring to the link you gave, I have one as well. Peace and a big smile to you. By the way, I don't know if you are the performer in the Egypt is a Black Land video, if you are, I absolutely loved it. It was a wonderful piece. Sunday at 7:46pm2
{{#ev:youtube|h4YEAuBPcxw&p|200|left}}
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @@Black Home Schoolers
1."Shakka, I am curious to know what proof you have other than your own opinion that the Lemba is not an authentic ancient tribe that has held on to ancient beliefs and practices."
I never said they weren't though I su...spect that like the Ga in my Mother's country (Ghana), they have their reasons for clothing their ancient customs in the conventional aesthetics of Judaism in an effort to self identify with the wealthiest theives on the planet. I guess status and monetary aid have never been human motives (sic). It appears now they want their piece of the Isreali pie. As Africans once occupied that area I say hell, why not...go get it. I just don't thnk it necessary to be done under a false presumed identity. In doing so they validate false claims made by their white Jewish co-conspirators. The ethnic groups in West Africa who make the same exact claim are too numerous to mention here....and some justifiably more so than the Lemba. Read 'Hebrewisms of West Africa' as posted above. You'll find more African so called 'Jews' in there than a little. By Joseph J. Williams claim's my Asante Ghanain family are 'Jewish'. One problem with that; Jews are Eastern Europeans who adopted this manufactured religion in the 10th century AD.
2. "What proof do you have that their ancient Hebrew traditions were taught to them by some white clan and not traditions passed down by their ancestors".
Provide ANY evidence whatsoever that prior to contacts with whites that the Lemba employed the 'Magen David' on their graves, or wore yamaka's. The burden of proof is on the person proclaiming the assumed indentity.
3. "Lastly, do you feel that the white race has a different origin and blood than the black races, if so what is that origin? Just curious.
White People are Just Mutants
Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin
"Scientists said yesterday that they have discovered a tiny GENETIC MUTATION that largely explains the FIRST appearance of white skin in humans tens of thousands of years ago, a finding that helps solve one of biology's most enduring mysteries and illuminates one of humanity's GREATEST SOURCES OF STRIFE."
".....The work suggests that the skin-whitening MUTATION occurred by chance in a single individual after the first human exodus FROM AFRICA,"
A few genes have previously been associated with human pigment disorders -- most notably those that, when mutated, lead to albinism, an extreme form of pigment loss. But the newly found glitch is the first found to play a role in the formation of "normal" white skin. The Penn State team calculates that the gene, known as slc24a5, is responsible for about one-third of the pigment loss that made black skin white. A few other as-yet-unidentified mutated genes apparently account for the rest.Although precise dating is impossible, several scientists speculated on the basis of its spread and variation that the mutation arose between 20,000 and 50,000 years ago. That would be consistent with research showing that a wave of ancestral humans migrated northward and eastward out of Africa about 50,000 years ago.
By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, December 16, 2005; A01
When did this happen, about 5300 years ago when the same OCA2 gene that turns off to create albinos turned 90% off and created white people? What about the other 184,700 years that Africans ruled the earth and created all the culture the white race stole?
"All other races derive from the Black race by a more or less direct filiation, and the other continents were populated from Africa at the Homo-erectus and Homo-sapiens stages, 150,000 years ago."
Civilization or Barbarism: An Authentic Anthropology (Chapt.1 p.11 para. 2) Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop (Head of the Radio Carbon Lab at IFAN Senegal west Africa).
"Negroid Grimaldian man appeared about-32,000. Cro-Magnon man, THE PROTOTYPE OF THE WHITE RACE, ABOUT -20,000, Chancelade man, the prototype of the yellow race, in the Magdalenian period, about -15,000. The Semitic races were a social phenomenon characteristic of an urban environment and were a cross between the black and white races."
Report of the symposium on "The peopling of Ancient Egypt and the Deciphering of the Meroitic Script (Annex to Chapter 1. p.52, 3rd para.) Prepared by the International Scientific Committee's Rapporteur at the request of the Committee.GENERAL HISTORY OF AFRICA U.N.E.S.C.O.) Ancient Civilizations of Africa II Abridged ed. copyright 1981 publ.1990 United Nations Educational Scientific & Cultural OrganizationInternational Scientific Committee for the Drafting of a General history of Africa
Anything else?See More Sunday at 7:59pm2
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Kinshasa Kelsey Manu WHOA!!! Shakka's in for the kill. LOL! Sunday at 8:01pm
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Black Home Schoolers
1."No hard feelings here either,"
I'm glad ... 2."however within this blue backdrop and black text printed on our computer screens, no one has presented proof of anything."
I have yet to be required to produce any....this is not the same as being bereft of it.
3."We all have stated our opinions and haven't provided any documentation."
I've stated mostly fact, very little opinion as most are incapable of distinguishing between the two, usually through no fault of their own.
4. "If you are referring to the link you gave, I have one as well. Peace and a big smile to you. By the way, I don't know if you are the performer in the Egypt is a Black Land video, if you are, I absolutely loved it. It was a wonderful piece."
I am the person in the video and I think you have excellent taste with respect to music videos (smile...lol). Enjoy.
PS.
1. "The publication of papyrus in the British museum revealed the author, Amenenope (the Ancient Egyptian scribe)! ALL OLD TESTAMENT SCHOLARS OF ANY WEIGHT OR STANDING NOW RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT THIS WHOLE SECTION OF ABOUT A CHAPTER AND A HALF OF THE BOOK OF PROVERBS 'IS LARGELY DRAWN VERBATIM FROM THE WISDOM OF AMENENOPE (the Ancient Egyptian scribe); THAT IS THE HEBREW VERSION IS PRACTICALLY A LITERAL TRANSLATION FROM THE EGYPTIAN. It is also likewise OBVIOUS that in numerous other places in the Old Testament not only in the Book of Proverbs, but ALSO in the HEBREW LAW, in JOB, as we already noticed in SAMUEL and JEREMIAH, AMENENOPE'S WISDOM IS THE SOURCE of ideas, figures,moral standards, and especially certain warm and humane spirit of kindness"
Professor James H. Breasted Egyptologist & Profess. THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
2. "The original foundational matter of the Mosaic writings is not, was not, historical at all, but ENTIRELY MYTHICAL.....The myths of EGYPT will be found to have been COPIED and REPRODUCED. THE HEBREWS TOOK THEM FROM THE EGYPTIANS, with other stolen goods, and were UNABLE or DID NOT CHOOSE to render a TRUE account of them."
Gerald Massey EGYPY LIGHT OF THE WORLD 1907
3. "The entire Christian Bible, creation legend, descent into and exodus from Egypt, ark and flood allegory, Israelite history, Hebrew prophesy and poetry, Gospel, Epistles and Revelation imagery, ALL ARE NOW PROVEN to have been the TRANSMISSION OF ANCIENT EGYPTS SCROLLS AND PAPYRI into the hands of later generations which knew neither their true origin nor their fathomless meaning"
Dr Alvin Boyd Kuhn PhD PhD Theosophy Columbia University
4. "The ripe social and moral development of mankind in the Nile Valley which is 3000 YEARS OLDER than that of the Hebrews CONTRIBUTED ESSENTIALLY TO THE FORMATION OF the Hebrew literature. Our moral heritage therefore derives from a wider human past ENORMOUSLY OLDER THAN THE HEBREWS and it has come to us rather THROUGH the Hebrews than FROM them"
Professor James H. Breasted Egyptologist & Profess. THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
5. "The WHOLE Christian Bible was derived from the sacred books of Egypt, such as: THE BOOK OF THE DEAD, THE PYRAMID TEXTS, AND THE BOOKS OF THOTH."
EA Wallis Budge (Keeper of the Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities at the British Museum)
Happy Black history year!!!!
PPS. I never speak on something unless I know the subject matter inside out. You might wanna include these posts in your home school curriculum. Education is a hard thing to come by.See More Sunday at 8:12pm
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Kinshasa Kelsey Manu Shakka, you blew it out the water. THAT'S scholarship. Very nice. Learned a lot 2day!! :D Sunday at 8:14pm
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kinshasa Kelsey Manu
We're all here for each other....I'm here for @Black Home Schoolers: as well. That's why I chimed in the first place. This way we are all in the know. We all benefit. Sunday at 8:16pmKinshasa Kelsey Manu .
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Kay Shabazz: The apocraphyl manuscripts were in wide use prior to The COnference oF Nice. They were,in fact, considered the Holy scripture.Many of these texts,such as the Gospel of Barnabas, were written by those Companions now considered disciples of C...hrist. The fact that these scripts are considered apocryphl gives more credence to the fundamentally flawed purpose of the conference,itself.It does not invalidate the text. In fact,the text were invalidated by the very clergy you seem to not value in any other measure,as you consider the current scripture,which replaced the so called apocraphylic script, false.If your argument is rooted in the idea that all scripture is false and only Egyptian doctrine is fact,then you'd be hard pressed to prove it.Are you asserting that animism and polytheistic beliefs are superior to a belief in one God, or is your argument purely based upon the rationale that you wish to disprove the existence of a Jewish populace.See More Sunday at 11:55pmBlack Home Schoolers: .
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Kay Shabazz: ALso, if you accept the creation "myth" and other doctrines associated with Modern Day Christianity as previously known amongst the Egyptians why are you seeking to disprove it,rather than to affirmative state that it is historically correc...t,but politically manipulated. I think it is disingenuous to state these doctrines were true and pure under the Egyptinas,but now historically false.It is common knowledge that the mythology surrounding Christ is a continuation of old ideologies related to Mithra. However, how was it valid then,but false now.See More Yesterday at 12:03amBlack Home Schoolers: .
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kay Shabazz: Part 1.
1."The apocraphyl manuscripts were in wide use prior to The COnference oF Nice. They were,in fact, considered the Holy scripture.Many of these texts,such as the Gospel of Barnabas, were written by those Companions n...ow considered disciples of Christ."
Gospel of Barnabas=
The Gospel of Barnabas is a substantial book depicting the life of Jesus; and claiming to be by Jesus's disciple Barnabas, who in this work is one of the twelve apostles. Two manuscripts are known to have existed, BOTH DATED TO THE LATE SIXTEENTH CENTURY and written respectively in ITALIAN AND SPANISH; although the Spanish manuscript is now lost, its text surviving only in a partial eighteenth-century transcript. Barnabas is about the same length as the four canonical gospels put together (the Italian manuscript has 222 chapters); with the bulk being devoted to an account of Jesus' ministry, much of it harmonised from accounts also found in the canonical gospels. In some key respects, it conforms to the Islamic interpretation of Christian origins and contradicts the New Testament teachings of Christianity. This Gospel is considered by the majority of academics, including Christians and some Muslims (such as Abbas el-Akkad) TO BE LATE AND PSEUDEPIGRAPHICAL;
Wikipedia,
Are you serious? This is your 'proof'? First of all you have no original autograph ....just manuscripts and copies thereof. That is not proof nor is it evidence. Let's start with the OLDEST manuscript. Number one...it's WRITTEN IN ITALIAN. The Greeks converted to Christianity before Italian was a written language so that dismisses your assertion that this 'Apocryphal work' predates Greek conversion. Secondly, a text that dates NO FURTHER BACK AS LATE AS THE 16TH CENTURY could not have been present at the Council of Niceae in 325AD. A little thing called 'chronology' prevents that from being possible. The second manuscript is WRITTEN IN SPANISH AND DATES NO FURTHER BACK than the 18TH CENTURY...and you have the unmitigated audacity to intimate that this 'text' was somehow an issue in the 4th century at Niceae when in point of FACT it did not even EXIST? Next you're going to tell me that people in 4th century Egypt and Turkey were speaking spanish. Some serious study is in order on your part my friend. The extremley late date of it's production is not the worse part...the fact that it is designated as PSEUDOEPIGRAPHICAL is. It is a false work...and an extremely late one at that. This is not proof, it is more like 'poof'.
Pseudepigraph-
Pseudepigrapha are falsely attributed works, texts whose claimed authorship is unfounded; a work, simply, "whose real author attributed it to a figure of the past"
New Oxford American Dictionary
It is a false work...and an extremely late one at that.
Oh did I fail to mention that 'textual criticism' is my forte' (smile).
2."The fact that these scripts are considered apocryphl gives more credence to the fundamentally flawed purpose of the conference,itself. It does not invalidate the text."
No, you are correct...the conference does not invalidate 'the text'....the text invalidates itself. You see the problem is that when you 'believe' in one false work('pseudepigrapha') you are forced by the nature of the 'beast' to 'believe' in a sundry of other false works produced in the effort of attempting to substantiate the original false work. The old folks never lied...when you tell one lie you have to tell a million more to cover it up...hence, your 'apocryphal' works. Late ones at that.
3. "In fact,the text were invalidated by the very clergy you seem to not value in any other measure,as you consider the current scripture, which replaced the so called apocraphylic script, false."
The only thing that is glaringly false is your ill-informed assertion of what actually occured at the Council of Niceae (325 AD) and the circumstances which brought it about. I can assure you that an extremely late 16th century fictitious pseudepigraphical manuscript had absolutely nothing to do with it as you are currently under the false impression of. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the fundamental causes which brought about the council you seem to be mis-informed about:
These are the causes which brought about the Council of Niceae-
1.The Donatist Schismatic Controversy
2. The Donation of Constantine
3. The Strong Statement by Arius
No where in there do you see anything about an extremely late 16th century fictitious pseudepigraphical manuscript referred to as 'The Gospel of Barnabas' so please stop miseducating others with your 'miseducation'. 'Ignorance' is a disease of the mind and like most other diseases it is highly contagious (with all due respect, that is not meant as an insult).
4. "If your argument is rooted in the idea that all scripture is false and only Egyptian doctrine is fact"
You cannot produce one statement by made by my self where I state that "all scripture is false and only Egyptian doctrine is fact". Please do not put words in my mouth as I can assure you the carefully chosen words I employ at every turn speak for themselves and need no assistance....paricularly from those less informed than myself as regards the subject matter.....with all due respect.
5. "then you'd be hard pressed to prove it."
That is an obsolete opinion as you have as yet to make a correct reference to my premise. I never said "all scripture is false" as Christianity, Islam & Judaism do not comprise 'all scripture', and not by any measure do they comprise all scripture, far from it. As well, neither did I state that "only Egyptian doctrine is fact". What I correctly argue is Egyptian doctrine is the 'source material' from which the so-called 3 major western religions derive the foundation of their doctrine. The available evidence definitively speaks to this in the affirmative. Proving it is cakeSee More 7 hours ago
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kay Shabazz: Part 2.
6. "Are you asserting that animism and polytheistic beliefs are superior to a belief in one God"
The terms 'animism' and 'polytheistic' are colloquial terms employed by Europeans/whites, and the minds of those infected w...ith the worldview of those whites, to disguise their own profound ignorance. The easiest way to disguise ones own ignorance is to denigrate, often through hallow, obsolete terms such as the ones you employ above, that which they are in point of fact ignorant of. The terms contain psycho-effective material and are culturally baised. In point of fact only a severely miseducated black person would validate such terminology. To define ones own cultural and racial legacy in the gross terminology of one's own historical oppressor is the grossest form of 'psycho-spiritual suicide':
Animism- |ˈanəˌmizəm| noun 1 the attribution of a soul to plants, inanimate objects, and natural phenomena. 2 the belief in a supernatural power that organizes and animates the material universe.
New Oxford American Dictionary
Sounds to me like so-called 'Animists' see God everywhere, in everything and in everyone, whilst so-called 'Monotheists' see only man as having a God given Soul so therefore everything else is fair game to be exploited, mis-used and destroyed, hence the state of our world, a world with so-called 'Monotheists' at the helm. Yes I would posit that the so-called 'Animists' are superior based on the evidence. Animists did not create a hole in the ozone layer, they did not spill gallons of metric tons of oil in our oceans and they did not exterminate and enslave millions of human beings. All of these things were done by the 'Monotheists', those incapable of "seeing God everywhere, in everything and in everyone". Me personally...I'll go with the so called 'Animists' any day of the week as theirs seem to be world view that even God Herself would suscribe to.
As far as the Africans of Ancient Egypt being polytheistic (whatever that's supposed to mean)....I highly recommend you do some more studying....seriously this time:
"A study of ancient Egyptian religious texts will convince the reader that the Egyptians believed in ONE God,who was self existent,immortal,invisible,eternal,omniscient,almighty, and inscrutible;the maker of the heavens and the earth,and underworld;the creator of the sky and the sea,men and women,animals and birds,fish and creeping things, trees and plants and the incorporeal beings who were the messengers that fulfilled his wish and word.
Sir E A Wallis Budge EGYPTIAN RELIGION CHAPT.1 p.17
Stop watching Hollywood movies...the first one of which, was the 'Holy Bible'. That's why it's still to this very day referred to as 'The greatest story ever told', because that's all it is...it's just a story....not even a good one at that. They left too many scripts lying around.....so the wall of illusion is easily breached by those who employ some serious study.
They lied to you about Ancient Egypt (the Truth is) THE PEOPLE OF ANCIENT EGYPT CREATED AND MAINTAINED THE CONCEPT OF ONE GOD.
1."Thou shalt make neither man nor woman to be afraid, for GOD is opposed thereto..."
2."....but inasmuch as the eating of bread is according to the plan of GOD....."
3."If thou have ground to till, labour in the field which GOD have given thee"
4."if thou abasest thyself in the service of a perfect man, thy conduct shall be fair before GOD"
5."If thou wouldst be a wise man, make thou thy son to be pleasing unto GOD"
6."Satisfy those who depend upon thee as far as thou art able so to do; this should be done by those whom God hath favoured"
7."....thou hast become merely the guardian of the things which GOD hath provided"
8."What is loved of GOD is obedience; God hateth disobedience"
9. "Verily a good son is of the gifts of God"
Precepts of Ptah Hotep - ANCIENT EGYPT 3000 B.C.E.. This text was first publ. by Prisse d'Avennes, entitled Facsimile d'un papyrus Egyptian en caracteres hieratiques, Paris,1847 Transliteration-Prisse Papyrus (Bibliothèque nationale de France)
This is OVER TWO THOUSAND AND A HALF before ADAM, EVE & JEHOVA were even born (literarily speaking). JESUS AND ALLAH WEREN'T EVEN THOUGHTS YET IN ANYONE'S MIND'S AND MENTIONED NOWHERE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH. This by the way is where the Greeks stole their literature from, and presented it to you as...the Bible. They stole it from the Black African peoples of Ancient Egypt. Historical fact.
Now....does this sound like a 'polytheistic' people to you? The only thing polytheistic is your polytheistic imagination informed and instructed by a religion imposed upon you by your not so former slave masters.
7."or is your argument purely based upon the rationale that you wish to disprove the existence of a Jewish populace."
It's not necessary to disprove a misnomered 'Jewish' populace. The whole identity of people who assume such an identity is a manufactured and prefabricated one. I don't dispute a populace. I successsssfully and effectively bereave them of their posthumous lies. They lie dead and stinking in the historical trash can of history, along with their attendant pseudepigraphical literature.See More 7 hours ago2
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Kay Shabazz: The knowlegde of one God has existed in all time amonsgt all peoples.However, the idea that only Egyptians,who worshipped a plethora of gods , hold a dominion on truth is simply fanatical. You seem to imply that you and you alone hold the c...ard of truth.Well, therein is our problem. You suppose that the only holy books to have ever existed are those you regard as important. Btw,monotheism has nothing to do with the acts of of destruction we see in the world today. Animism,however, is till in wide practice today.Have you acknowledged the ramifications on the individuals,particularly women, who reside in those lands. WHo lied about anicient Egypt.Is not the knowledge of Akhenaton and countless prophets who resided in that land well known. The problem you are having with those of us on this board, that you preceive to be ignorant, is simply this: We do not ascribe to ideas of ancestor worship.I see no point in holding honor based on the legacy of a destroyed people. Scripture and spiritual text have always existed amongst human beings and have until recent years continued to evolve. The identity which you have established by rooting yourself in the glory days of a dead people whose descendants have been carted off into slavery,and expelled from their own lands is perplexing. Egypt was a land like no other.The bible clearly states this.Egypt conqured and controlled all that she surveyed.Woopty do.How does that help us as a people today. Your pompous and hubris as you proport to be the reigning master of knowledge pretaing to our ancestry is absolutely revolting.I can't imagine what beingin your presence must be like.I am sure there is no chance of anyone getting a word in edgewise. The individuals who assert their opinion on this board are free to educate themselves as they choose.If they do not agree with you,it certainly doesn't make them misinformed by their oppressors. Contrary to what you seem to believe,but black people do study. They study this very history with which you have created your personal identity and they may not agree with you,even after that. The truth is that most ofus care so muchabout our destiny's we have no time to harbor upon the wonder's of our past.i will not refute your African origins of Egyptians as a people,but I believe your premse and delivery is flawed. Scripture has existed outside the realm of Eurpoeans for thousands of years.It can not be dismissed because the notion of Montheism predates our current scriptures. Nor can scripture be negated simpky because one would like to belive that the black man is the originator of all things in creation.God comes first,then creation.Unfortunately ,anyone who is not wise enough to know that life and all things within it owe their existence to God.I is to God that you will e returned.HUmanity is but 1 brotherhood. Division in your hearts and minds is your primary conqueror, not the whiteman. YOu are in a new land, and exist as a new people. DO you suppose that GOd brought you and your progeny all this way to worship a people he destroyed.See More 7 hours agoBlack Home Schoolers: .
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kay Shabazz:
1."ALso, if you accept the creation "myth" and other doctrines associated with Modern Day Christianity as previously known amongst the Egyptians why are you seeking to disprove it"
You appear to be somewhat lost with respect to ...what my point of contention is, it is authorship...authenticity, primacy, anteriority. It is not to substantiate Ancient Egyptian 'Deep Thought'. With that task they do not require my assistance as the civilization they produced testifies the power of that 'Thought'.
2."rather than to affirmative state that it is historically correct,but politically manipulated."
Christian Doctrine is not historically correct...in any sense of the term....therefore it is unnecessary for me to pronounce it as such. I am not in the business of lying. 'Lying' is something Christianity needs no assistance with as it is the supreme master of the 'lie'.
3. "I think it is disingenuous to state these doctrines were true and pure under the Egyptinas"
Why do you continue to put words on my mouth I never uttered? Perhaps an excessive lack of facts predisposes someone to such activity. I can only guess as I am not a mind reader nor do I claim to be one, just as I have no where claimed that "these doctrines were true and pure under the Egyptinas". If I thought they were or weren't, that would be a philosophical discussion. To those capable of making the distinction it is quite apparent that this is a discussion centered on the historical record, not whether or not God in the name of Ra actually had a solar bark that sailed across the sky everyday.
4. "but now historically false."
Christian scripture is historically false....there is no need for me to posit otherwise.
"The entire Christian Bible, creation legend, descent into and exodus from Egypt, ark and flood allegory, Israelite history, Hebrew prophesy and poetry, Gospel, Epistles and Revelation imagery, ALL ARE NOW PROVEN to have been the TRANSMISSION OF ANCIENT EGYPTS SCROLLS AND PAPYRI into the hands of later generations which knew neither their true origin nor their fathomless meaning"
Dr Alvin Boyd Kuhn PhD PhD Theosophy Columbia University
5. "It is common knowledge that the mythology surrounding Christ is a continuation of old ideologies related to Mithra".
Mithraic rites are not even worth mentioning in this discussion as the central nature of it's worldview was in constant mutation throughout it's existence.
6 "However, how was it valid then,but false now."
it was valid then because literary theft was not a feature of Ancient Africa, not until the Greek showed up. It is the Greeks who made it false. Your beef is with them....not with me.See More 7 hours ago2
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Kay Shabazz: I am done. THis conversation is disintegrating into a mental mastubatory session. I do not agree on any level .Scripture irrespective of it's preceived origins has a profound function in the human experience.Our purpose is to build from our... past,not to exist in a state of idolatry as a result of it. We are to become greater as a consequence of it.Each human is responsible for discovering his/her past,and bulding a future for their progeny and community from it. We will make very little progress if our purpose and incites leads us to ridicule others. THat I am sure is a contiunation of our tribal past. I have no interest in being the smartest or only nigga. I am only interested in being one of many forward thinking blacks who contributes to the existence of "us as a whole. PeaceSee More 7 hours agoBlack Home Schoolers: .
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Black Home Schoolers: Kay you finished this off pretty nicely and you seem to have knocked the ball out of the park. One mans opinion can not and will not stand in the face of truth. Truth is what it is whether it's properly documented on simply spoken. As we all know, there are a lot of documented lies circulating our world. How do I know this? Because the SCRIPTURES tell me so. lol. 6 hours ago2
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kay Shabazz: Part 1.
1."The knowlegde of one God has existed in all time amonsgt all peoples."
Until you provide cited evidence of this that is merely your opinion. Opinions carry no weight in a debate. 'Evidence' and 'cited sources' do. ...Your statement is obsolete as you have not proved it. Do not pass 'go'.
2. "However, the idea that only Egyptians,who worshipped a plethora of gods, hold a dominion on truth is simply fanatical."
"A study of ancient Egyptian religious texts will convince the reader that the Egyptians believed in ONE God,who was self existent,immortal,invisible,eternal,omniscient,almighty, and inscrutible;the maker of the heavens and the earth,and underworld;the creator of the sky and the sea,men and women,animals and birds,fish and creeping things, trees and plants and the incorporeal beings who were the messengers that fulfilled his wish and word.
Sir E A Wallis Budge EGYPTIAN RELIGION CHAPT.1 p.17
"The epithets which the Egyptians applied to their gods also bear valuable testimony concerning the ideas which they held about GOD. We have already said that the"gods" are ONLY FORMS & MANIFESTATIONS,and phases of Ra,the Sun-god,who was himself THE TYPE & SYMBOL of GOD,and it is evident from the nature of these epithets that they were only applied to the"gods" because they represented some QUALITY or ATTRIBUTE which they WOULD HAVE applied to GOD,HAD IT BEEN THERE CUSTOM TO ADDRESS HIM."
EGYPTIAN RELIGION
Sir EA Wallis Budge (London 1899) Keeper of the Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities at the British Museum
Being Muhammad is one of your 'gods' (and he certainly is) I guess that makes you equally polytheistic.
2."hold a dominion on truth is simply fanatical"
No less fanatical than individuals who suscribe to definitively disproven doctrines such as Islam. At least with ancient Egypt we have PRIMARY E.V.I.D.E.N.C.E. Islamiscists, in acordance with their Christian and Jewish 'historical victims' have only fantasy and speculation and become resentful when called on it. The problem is purely theirs. They have my condolences.
3. "You seem to imply that you and you alone hold the card of truth.Well, therein is our problem."
I alone in this forum in particular have competently substantiated my academic assertions where you have failed to do so repeatedly....and will continue to do so. Such are the fruits of miseducation. I have not partaken of such a diet. Bon apetite'
4. "You suppose that the only holy books to have ever existed are those you regard as important."
No, I 'suppose' nothing. I'm not in the business of 'supposing'....I leave that up to lesser minds. I prepose that evidence is the criteria for a mature and responsible people and that mere 'beliefs'do not retain the same premium as an epistemological foundation. It's a question of academic standards.....standards which are all too often, too low, and held by those who thought they knew something about anything, when in fact they know absolutely nothing about most things. Allow me to introduce you to the 'dumbing down' process, though I submit you appear to well aquainted with it already (smile); with all due respect.
5. "Btw,monotheism has nothing to do with the acts of of destruction we see in the world today"
I've successfully illustrated why and how it does. The fact that your mind cannot wrap itself around the illustrated evidence I posited is no statement on the validity or lack thereof of the evidence listed. Any conscientious observer engaging this dialogue will readily concur...I assure you.
5."Animism,however, is till in wide practice today.Have you acknowledged the ramifications on the individuals,particularly women, who reside in those lands"
You aksed me for a value judgement I provided you with a sound one, a plausible one.....one easlily attested to. Sharia law allows for women to be stoned to death for 'romantic' indiscretion, so please spare me your self righteous diatribe.See More 5 hours ago2
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kay Shabazz: Part 2.
6." WHo lied about anicient Egypt."
A better question would be...who didn't? The fact that you can ask such a remedial question in a discussion as serious as this intimates to me that you are no where near as 'lea...rned' as you would like to think yourself to be. The list of institutions who sought to disparage Ancient Egypts reputation over such an incredible expanse of time is one far too numerous to mention here:
"It was not so long ago, however, that the combined influence of the Bible and Classical tradition CONSPIRED to produce a rather incoherent view of Egyptian civilization..."
'Histoire de l'Egyptye ancienne (A History of Ancient Egypt), translation by Ian Shaw, 1992
PS. It pays to read. Apparently Ian Shaw knows something you do not.
7. "Is not the knowledge of Akhenaton and countless prophets who resided in that land well known?
Line up 7 black 8th graders and ask them. I'm sure you'll get a much more succinct answer to your question
8. "The problem you are having with those of us on this board, that you preceive to be ignorant, is simply this: We do not ascribe to ideas of ancestor worship."
I have no problem with anyone on this board, for you to seek to illustrate such a fallacy I find to be quite disingenuous. Various individuals in this forum seek to contaminate young minds with the same mis-information and the same self deluding beliefs they themselves have been contaminated with. They have every right to do so, particularly when they are the custodians of those young minds. I've sough to deprive no one of this right. Also allow me to relieve you of the misguided notion that you and those you share your ill-informed beliefs with do not engage in some form of Ancestor worship. Not only do you engage in Ancestor worship but you are naive and gullible enough to worship the fictitious Ancestors of others. Religion as practiced by Christianity and it's descendant religions is no less 'Ancestor worship' than is the ancestor worship of those you seek to denigrate. What is the worship of God, other than the acknowledgement of that which is your source? It is ancestor worship by definition of the terms employed ie. God the FATHER, the SON, etc. The terms FATHER and SON would not be employed if an ANCESTRAL and DESCENDANT relationship were not being depicted. Because 'true believers' have been rendered incapable of thinking for themselves they are oblivious to this internal dynamic of ANCESTRAL WORSHIP inherent in these religions. The Black pot calling the equally black kettle...."black". it's quite pathetic actually, under the delusional false presumption that they are somehow participating in a totally different form of worship. Yes...pathetic. Like a child with new sneakers laughing at a child with old worn sneakers at the beginning of the school year just to have their sneakers end up as dirty, old and worn by the end of the school year...and all the while they thought he had something different....something special. When do we grow up? Not only are those '3 revealed religions' late forms of ancestor worship, but they are political in nature as they seek converts....in the interest of political hegemony; whilst true 'Ancestralism' is 'foundationalism' par excellence as it cannot seek converts and is therefore devoid of political motive. It appropriates nothing from others and seeks not to. Your logic is to say the wolf is innocent whilst the sheep are guilty. Not only do you lack knowledge...but insight and wisdom as well. The price you pay for defecating on your Ancestors.
9. "I see no point in holding honor based on the legacy of a destroyed people."
You sound disgusting...in fact you disgust me. If your Biblical Satan overran Heaven, defeated and destroyed God and his Angels, you would side with the devil simply because he vanquished his adversaries. You not only lack insight, knowledge and wisdom....you lack principal as well. And we are not destroyed. You sound as if you would celebrate on bahalf of whites if we were (smile).
in fact in reading the rest of your obsolete diatribe...I can see just how uneducated you in point of fact are concerning the subject matter. Because you could not produce EVIDENCE you now seek other means, alternative means to prove the unprovable. This by definition I will accept as your glaringly obvious defeat. Until you do your homework you will lose...EVERYTIME. I will return to my original purpose for which I came into this discussion and will no longer be sidetracked by your stategic digression. The rest of your conversation is subjective garbage and I pity any black child placed in your care with respect to their education. They will only have learned from you how to duck, dodge and hide behind the religions of your not so former slave master (smile).
"Scripture and spiritual text have always existed amongst human beings and have until recent years continued to evolve. The identity which you have established by rooting yourself in the glory days of a dead people whose descendants have been carted off into slavery,and expelled from their own lands is perplexing. Egypt was a land like no other.The bible clearly states this.Egypt conqured and controlled all that she surveyed.Woopty do.How does that help us as a people today. Your pompous and hubris as you proport to be the reigning master of knowledge pretaing to our ancestry is absolutely revolting.I can't imagine what beingin your presence must be like.I am sure there is no chance of anyone getting a word in edgewise. The individuals who assert their opinion on this board are free to educate themselves as they choose.If they do not agree with you,it certainly doesn't make them misinformed by their oppressors. Contrary to what you seem to believe,but black people do study. They study this very history with which you have created your personal identity and they may not agree with you,even after that. The truth is that most ofus care so muchabout our destiny's we have no time to harbor upon the wonder's of our past.i will not refute your African origins of Egyptians as a people,but I believe your premse and delivery is flawed. Scripture has existed outside the realm of Eurpoeans for thousands of years.It can not be dismissed because the notion of Montheism predates our current scriptures. Nor can scripture be negated simpky because one would like to belive that the black man is the originator of all things in creation.God comes first,then creation.Unfortunately ,anyone who is not wise enough to know that life and all things within it owe their existence to God.I is to God that you will e returned.HUmanity is but 1 brotherhood. Division in your hearts and minds is your primary conqueror, not the whiteman. YOu are in a new land, and exist as a new people. DO you suppose that GOd brought you and your progeny all this way to worship a people he destroyed."
None of this need be addressed as it was accompanied by no documented proof, primary evidence, or authoritative text. It is simply an unasked for opinion. Those are facts. Not opinion.See More 5 hours ago
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Black Home Schoolers
1. "Kay you finished this off pretty nicely and you seem to have knocked the ball out of the park."
I agree Kay was 'finished'... along time ago in fact. Once she decided to relegate herself to the realm of unsubstantia...ted 'opinion' she made it quite obvious that she doesn't belong in an academic discussion.
2."One mans opinion can not and will not stand in the face of truth."
It would appear that there is a consensus of denial suscribed to by both you 'Black Home Schoolers' as well as your Islamic 'opinion' junkie; 'opinion junkie' because she seems to be allergic to facts. I would hate to see her have to deal with calculus where opinions are obsolete. I'm of the opinion that you would both tbe at a complete loss as neither of you have shown any respect whatsoever for the facts, proven and documented. The fact that I successfully crushed every false assertion thrown at me by 'Shabazz' (tell the white man Fard he can keep that nonsense) is no reason not to appreciate the FACTS as they have been elucidated. Truth is an ideology subject to facts not the other way around, but I don't expect lesser minds to concur, as they are ill equipped to do so. I came, I conquered and that's that, until PROVEN otherwise which I don't see in the forseeable near future.
3. "Truth is what it is whether it's properly documented on simply spoken."
How inaccurately, though poetically spoken. Prose may be your calling...not education, particularly if 'prophetic prophecy' is part of the curriculum.
4. As we all know, there are a lot of documented lies circulating our world. How do I know this? Because the SCRIPTURES tell me so. lol.
I would only end that with:
Get an education. My only fear is that none of you would recognize one if it walked up to you and offered you a glass of clean water. Next time find someone who can truly assist you in an 'adult debate'. You both failed miserably. Feel free to comfort yourselves with the last word as I take my leave, I'm sure it will be as unsubstantiated and historically inept as all else you previously posited in this dialogue. Thank you for the discussion.
PROLEGOMENON TO AMENEMOPE (A)
"Amenemope has become justly famous—not only for its intrinsic value as one of the great instructional texts of ancient Egypt, but also for its INDISPUTABLE role in the FORMATION of the biblical Book of Proverbs. As a result, it has been translated into several languages outside the usual English-French-German academic nexus;"
In addition to the many titles in English, German, and French, works on Amenemope have been published in Swedish [Pehr Lugn, "Ordspråksboken och Amen-em-Opes Vishetslära," Svensk Tidskrift 14 (1924), 483-490], Czech [Frantisek Lexa, "Obecne mravni nauky staroegyptske," Sbírka pojednání a rozprav 8, 11, 13 (1926-1929)], Spanish [Abraham Rosenvasser, "La Enseñanza de Amenemope," Humanidades 20 (1929), 505-541; Angel Marzal, La Enseñanza de Amenemope (Madrid: Instituto Español de Estudios Eclesiasticos y Ediciones Marova, 1965)], and Danish [Willem Dirk van Wijngaarden, "Amen-em-ope en de oudere Egyptische wijsheid," Egyptian Religion 2 (1934), 87-99; Willem Dirk van Wijngaarden, Het boek der wijsheid van Amen-em-ope, den zoon van Kanecht (Santpoort: Mees, 1930)]. On the other hand, one work which appears to be about Amenemope [Manuel Lozano, Libro de Amenemope (Buenos Aires: Torres Agüero Editor, 1987)] is not; it is a book of poetry, and its only relation to Amenemope is its title and cover art.
PROLEGOMENON TO AMENEMOPE (B)
"The Ancient Egyptian scribe Amenemope has become commonplace in English-language anthologies of ancient Egyptian literature,31 and one English-language Bible translation has even restored the name of Amenemope to its rightful place in the biblical text."
Catholic Church, Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, The Holy Bible: Translated from the Original Languages with Critical Use of All Ancient Sources by members of the Catholic Biblical Association of America, 2nd ed., 4 vols. (Paterson, N.J.: St. Anthony Guild Press, 1953-1961), 3:411.
"The publication of papyrus in the British museum revealed the author, Amenenope (the Ancient Egyptian scribe)! ALL OLD TESTAMENT SCHOLARS OF ANY WEIGHT OR STANDING NOW RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT THIS WHOLE SECTION OF ABOUT A CHAPTER AND A HALF OF THE BOOK OF PROVERBS 'IS LARGELY DRAWN VERBATIM FROM THE WISDOM OF AMENENOPE (the Ancient Egyptian scribe); THAT IS THE HEBREW VERSION IS PRACTICALLY A LITERAL TRANSLATION FROM THE EGYPTIAN. It is also likewise OBVIOUS that in numerous other places in the Old Testament not only in the Book of Proverbs, but ALSO in the HEBREW LAW, in JOB, as we already noticed in SAMUEL and JEREMIAH, AMENENOPE'S WISDOM IS THE SOURCE of ideas, figures,moral standards, and especially certain warm and humane spirit of kindness"
Professor James H. Breasted Egyptologist & Profess. THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
"After the Greeks (and thus the Romans) were CIVILIZED BY THE AFRICANS IN EGYPT most of what we now know as 'Europe' was still barbaric, and unheard of. There was really NO EUROPE in ancient times......and Europe as we know it was divided by the Rhine-Danube frontier, south and west of which lay the civilized provinces of the empire, and north and east the BARBARIANS' of whom the civilized world KNEW ALMOST NOTHING"
A HISTORY OF THE MODERN WORLD R.R. Palmer (Prof. Yale University) and Joel Colton (Prof. of History at Duke University)
Where do you think the Greeks stole their stories from? Why do you think the first Bible was written in Greek as opposed to Hebrew? I expect either of you to have the answers to these questions as you both appear to be historically illiterate.
Enjoy your ignorance....I hear it's bliss. I wouldn't know. If you ever want more facts...let me know. I'm generous when it comes to my people.See More 5 hours ago
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Shakka Ahmose Manu @Kay Shabazz:
1."I am done".
I agree... you were done from the moment your evidence was sucessfully refuted ie. your 'apocryphal Gospel of Barnabas' as 'proof' of some sort. If your bold enough to introduce evidence effectively proven faulty..., then be grown up enough to stand corrected when you've been successfully and effectively shown to be in error. That is how adults are supposed to interact.
2. "THis conversation is disintegrating into a mental mastubatory session."
Sounds like 'sour grapes' to me. Your premises were each proven to be unfounded and with out merit under close scrutiny and now you designate the prsenting of actual facts as "intelletual masturbation". I would hate to see what you would call it if someone were to score significantly higher than you on an quiz, test or an exam. You'd probably call it 'cheating', because they knew something ......you did not.
3. "I do not agree on any level"
Neither do my fish but then what they do know? Apparently as much as you do.
4. "Scripture irrespective of it's preceived origins has a profound function in the human experience"
I don't recall saying it did.
5. "Our purpose is to build from our past,not to exist in a state of idolatry as a result of it."
One cannot build on a past one is profoundly ignorant of. As far as idoltry is concerned I can think of a few idols Muslims adhere to; prayer beads with the hanging tassle, prayer carpet, Muahammad and the Quaran. We won't even mention the Kaaba, or maybe we will:
The Black Stone is a significant feature of the Kaaba, believed by Muslims to be placed there by Ibrahim (Abraham) and Ismail (Ishmael).[10] Located at the eastern corner of the Kaaba, it is about 30 cm (12 in) in diameter and surrounded by a silver frame. Although not strictly obligatory, pilgrims can kiss the Stone, as Muhammad is said to have done. The following passage gives an insight to the significance of the Black Stone in Islam: Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said, "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen God's Apostle kissing you, I would not have kissed you." [11] Large crowds can make kissing the Stone impossible, so as pilgrims walk round the Kaaba they point to the Stone on each pass
Diane Morgan (2010). Essential Islam: A Comprehensive Guide to Belief and Practice. Santa Barbara: ABC-CLIO, p. 83.
Some people prefer crosses, others a Black Stone that they kiss, and some people are just full of sh*t and live in denial. Even your fictitious Muhammad was a STONE KISSING IDOL WORSHIPPER. So please ...tell it to 'Black Home Schoolers' who seems to be the only one uneducated enough to swallow your crap.
6. "We are to become greater as a consequence of it."
Living in denial makes no one greater.
7. 'Each human is responsible for discovering his/her past"
Seems to me like you're sleeping on the job.
8. "and bulding a future for their progeny and community from it. We will make very little progress if our purpose and incites leads us to ridicule others."
Many of us need to be ridiculed. As black people we tolerate to much of the colonial nonsense ( be it semetic or otherwise) running around our incarcerated minds. Maybe you'll prevent being 'shown up' in the future by doing some actual necessary requsite comaprative research. Don't try and floss on those of us who have done it, and have done it exceedingly well.
9 " THat I am sure is a contiunation of our tribal past."
The way Sunni Muslims attack and kill Shiite Muslims it looks to me like that Quaran has left you all steeped in someone elses tribla past. Talk about historical irony.
10. "I have no interest in being the smartest or only nigga"
That was evident from the outset, and trust me...youre in absolutely no danger of being the 'smartest' or 'only' anything...let alone a 'NIGGER' (how adorable...an oblique attempt at referencing me as a 'NIGGER', how pathetic, first you denigrate your African ancestors and then refer to me as a 'NIGGER' in as discreet a fashion you are capable of mustering; smells like 'self hating' season to me).
11. "I am only interested in being one of many forward thinking blacks who contributes to the existence of "us as a whole. Peace"
Contribute How? By contaminating the minds of other un-learned Black people with your rationalization of histories proven definitively false? Sorry...we as Black people have chosen to raise our standards and if your arms are too short to 'box with God' ...then just sit down and shut up.See More
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Watchman Banks Shakka, I think you missed the point of what Blackhomeschoolers was trying to say, maybe it’s because you are trying so hard to prove how educated you are. Let me simplify this for you by asking a question. Where did the Hebrew Language c...ome from? Did it have it’s origin from black people? Or did it come from the white so called Jews in Israel? Many of the Black Hebrew Israelites have this book you are referring to, and they use this book to point out that the original people of the Hebrew language and customs are black people. This is what the women in the video is saying. The book you mentioned actually confirms the point we are all trying to make.
http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/hebrewism.htm
Listen to this statement a brother makes about the book “Hebrewisms of West Africa” at http://hebrewisms.blogspot.com/
“When I decided to read Joseph J. Williams’ book – I believe it was mentioned on a list of books by one of the African scholars I had recently read – I went into it hoping to find more facts to build a Biblical case for the African migration of the Israelites of original Northern Africa and Palestine. I have long held the notion the bulk of the true Israelites did in fact head to the east, west, and north and south of the African Continent. Mr. Williams book has confirmed my assertion."
You also stated: "The term 'Hebrew' is itself a ficticious term and implies absolutely nothing."
WHAT? Try making that bold statement at a University and see how they respond to you. The Hebrew Language is more that 3000 years old. The earliest well-attested Hebrew writing is the Gezer calendar, which (based on the paleographic style of the text) has been dated to around 925-900 BCE.
A recent discovery, that MAY be Hebrew and may be earlier than the Gezer Calender, is a pottery shard bearing five lines of text, from the site of Khirbet Qeiyafa southwest of Jerusalem. It was found in the same layer as some burnt olive pits that could be radiocarbon dated to around 1050-970 BCE, and was written using the Proto-Canaanite script. This find needs more analysis, including translation, to confirm its age and that it really is a Hebrew text.
Now I am not trying to get into a big debate about this, just trying to state the facts. It is what it is
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: 3000 years is not saying much. That's only 1000 BCE. All that is hebrew is learned from when the shepherd kings lived in Kemet for hundreds of years. this time period about 3700 years ago. So all you mention is learned behaviours from spending time in what you call Egypt today..
I mean, the pyramids were build by Afrikan hands and minds AT LEAST 4700 years ago. That's 1700 years before hebrews were even speaking hebrew language according to your own dates.
Why identify with such a new culture on the world scene? 3 hours ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: even 4700 years ago is not much, knowing that we been around for ~200,000 years....
if you base your existence on a 3000 year old culture, you're just ignoring the previous ~197,000 years!
Where they do that at? 3 hours ago
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Black Home Schoolers So are you saying that the hebrew Language was established by the African's? 3 hours ago · 2 people
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: you can safely say most cultures on earth were in some way established, or greatly influenced by Afrikans 3 hours ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: not taking into consideration that everyone on earth is a descendant of Afrikans in one way or another 3 hours ago
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Black Home Schoolers I totally agree with that. My question was, are you saying that the hebrew language that is spoken today as well as 3,000 years ago is an African language? 3 hours ago · 2 people
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: I don't speak hebrew of 3000 years ago. But if this language we are speaking about was indeed created in around the year 1010 BCE, and it was created in the area of the world that we call Egypt/israel today, I'd say, logically speaking that it was a mix or Afrikan and Western Asian. See at that time, the people who lived in present day israel was being overrun by non-Afrikan foreigners. So there was probably influence from both sides. 3 hours ago
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Black Home Schoolers What languages do you fluently speak other than English? It is wonderful when I see brothers and sisters who speak several languages. 3 hours ago · 2 people
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: Just english. Im studing Arabic in school and my queen speaks some ebonic-spanish and she teachs me that. I'm a historian 2 hours ago
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Watchman Banks: Kofi, first I only mentioned the brief history of the hebrew Language because someone stated "The term hebrew is itself a ficticious term and implies absolutely nothing."
And to say that a culture isn't worth anything because it is only ...3000 years old is a bit condescending. Tell that to the Iroquois and Algonquian people. Many do not believe in the Bible, but others do and it may be because of the way the God of the scriptures dealt with the Egyptians, they may not want any part of an Egyptian culture. Why should we fight because of another brothers beliefs.
Again as I stated before we are simply saying that hebrewism has it's roots in black people, and not the so called white Jews of Israel. IT IS WHAT IT IS 2 hours ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: It seems to be the style in this thread to put words in people's mouth. What's up with that?
Where did I EVER say the culture is not worth anything? about an hour ago
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Watchman Banks: Kofi, not trying to put words in your mouth, I was responding to you and someone else at the same time. about an hour ago · 2 people
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: can you cite an example where anyone said the culture is worthless? about an hour ago
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Watchman Banks: Shakka about an hour ago · 2 people
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Black Home Schoolers Shakka Ahmose Manu I believe posted and I quote "The term hebrew is itself a ficticious term and implies absolutely nothing. The term 'Jew' is of eastern" about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: the idea is that the culture is based off an older more vast system. and to follow the new system makes little sense when present with the foundation that pre-dates the new culture...do you understand that premise brotha watchman? about an hour ago
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Watchman Banks: I understand where you are coming from, but even if it derived from another culture it's still a real culture. Some cultures come out of others. At one point of time the majority of the cultures today weren't around. about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: now we are going to talk about why it's a made up culture. ok? about an hour ago
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Black Home Schoolers: It goes back to my earlier question of the hebrew language being fully establish and thus whether original or a break away from another culture doesn't make it any less real. The debate here came in when another poster was suggesting that e...ven the Lemba African tribe, who considers themselves to be a hebrew tribe, are fictitious.
The comment basically implies that these Black people of the Lemba tribe sat down and received training from modern day whites and could not have simply adapted to ancestral habits. It is an insult to the Lemba tribe to suggest that everything they know was learned from some white people. That is absurd. I think too much credit is already been given to the white race for black culture.
These same white people have falsely documented fake facts proving Egypt to be a White land. Why does the thievery only stop at Egypt. They are attempting to steal the ancient hebrew culture as well. I hear also, that the ancient Greek were a black culture and that 200 years ago, the whites fabricated relics for a fake Greek culture as well. This information is not coming from me but a white man. Google Black Athena if you are not already familiar. about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: I got that book Black Athena. I haven't read it tho about an hour ago
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Black Home Schoolers Do you believe it? It is said that Greek roots come from Egypt in which I do believe this but I still believe in the Hebraic roots in Africa as well. about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: its true about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: Afrika is the Mother of all Civlization about an hour ago
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Black Home Schoolers I believe this too. I know this as do most of the world. Do you believe that Egypt imparticular is the birthplace of all civilizations? about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: belief is a wack term about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: some things I KNOW others I don't know I don't deal in belief about an hour ago
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Black Home Schoolers Well, let me rephrase, do you feel that Egypt is the birthplace of all civilizations? Does anything exist outside of ancient Egypt in your honest opinion? about an hour ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: Egypt is a late comer in relation to older Afrikan cultures. Nubia, Ethiopia, Punt, and Great Lakes civilizations all predate the existence of what you call Egypt. 59 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers I only asked this because most study Egyptian history as if it was the first of everything. What do you think about the 2 former names of Egypt, Kemet and Mizraim? As we know the term Egypt was a name given by a non African. Even the name Africa wasn't the original name of the land but was given by a non African. 55 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: progenetors to Mwenemutapa(Monomotapa) in present day Zimbabwe were mining Iron 40,000 years ago. so Afrikan civ is very very old 54 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: Kemet is what we called the place before 53 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: "land of black folk" basically 53 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers what about Mizraim? 52 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: sounds like a biblical term 51 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: sounds like a biblical term 51 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: or a hebrew term hebrew being only 3000 years old according to watchman. so a 3000 year old name reffering to a civilization that is AT LEAST 4700 years old does not make sense to me. does it make sense to you? that would be like me renaming you and telling you that's your name. would you allow me to do that? 50 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers I don't know how old the hebrew language or people are but I don't deny their existence. I don't mean the fake Jews in Israel but the black Hebraic people. 42 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers Do you feel that the African Lemba tribe is a fabrication of the white culture? 41 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: I do know how old the hebrew people are. and it's no older than the father of the hebrew nation. what's his name again? 40 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: answer this ^^ 40 minutes ago
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Watchman Banks: Or is it like the renaming Africa and Egypt which many Africans seem to be quite happy with the name given to them by non-Africans. It's funny to me that we have a problem with using the term hebrew. 35 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers Abraham in which that is not his real hebrew name but a European fabrication. His true name was hebrew: אַבְרָהָם, Abram. 34 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: I say Afrika and Egypt because you wouldn't recognize Kemet, Tameri, Alkebulan, etc. I am striving to speak a language that we can both communicate in. otherwise we will be just going back and fourth not even absorbing what the other is saying... 31 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: very good BHS! what year did he live? 29 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: I say very good because this is quickly becoming a discussion and not a fight. 29 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers I don't like to fight especially with words because it goes no where. I had a hard enough time going back and forth with white folk trying to convince them that Egypt was a black land and I am sure that none of the pictures, facts or video ...links were enough to convince them. In the end I was told that we Afro-centrist are trying to steal a white culture and that even the blackness of the skin on Egyptian artifacts had a white explanation.
As for Abraham, he was born 2160 BC but the fact that it isn't recorded in Egyptian history doesn't negate his existence. 20 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: fine I'll accept that. for the sake of the discussion we will say he did exist. 19 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: 2160 BC. 18 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: so my question is why would you identify with a culture that is only 4170 years old? 16 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: and not respect and identify with your people who predate, and assuredly what this culture trued to base its self on 15 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers Does not Africa even today have many different cultural styles, beliefs, languages, practices and habits? 13 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: it sure does. all stemming in some way from nile valley culture 13 minutes ago
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Watchman Banks: Brother Kofi, are you there? I hope I didn't offend you 12 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: from the Woloff in Senegal, to the Ashanti in Ghana, to the Yoruba(and various others in Nigeria) to the BaKongo and Tutsis in central Afrika, to the Zulu's in southern Afrika. All can be related to the their mother culture. 11 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers I don't choose to pick a culture that I'd want for myself but rather view what has happened to my people here in America, Brazil, other areas in north America and all over this world. It was prophesied that we would be shipped into bondage as a result to disobedience to our God. It has happened and we today are living in America still under captivity of the white mans laws and customs. 10 minutes ago
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Watchman Banks: That's a trip, and it's so sad that in this day and time this mess is still going on to blacks all over the world, and then you get these whites who act like nothings wrong. 6 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: Watchman I didn't ignore you I answered right after your other post: "I say Afrika and Egypt because you wouldn't recognize "Kemet, Tameri, Alkebulan, etc." I am striving to speak a language that we can both communicate in. otherwise we will be just going back and fourth not even absorbing what the other is saying..." 6 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers Mihoby, I hear you and am on the same page. We have been working for years towards sustainability and being off the grid. This is what we teach our people but sadly most don't listen. Our people don't know how to grow their own food, employ rain catching systems, generate electricity, use compost and natural fertilizers etc. This is what we teach as we know that they have plans for us. 5 minutes ago · UnlikeLike
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: Like Baba Clarke said. (paraphrasing) What ever spiritual system you do choose, Afrikanize it and make it a tool of your liberation. 3 minutes ago
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Black Home Schoolers Our culture is important, but more importantly we as a people need to get off of our butts before the crap hits the fan and learn how to feed ourselves and live without the aid of other folk.
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Watchman Banks: Your right, I certainly wouldn't have remembered Tameri, Alkebulan. Where are you from if you don't mind me asking? 14 minutes ago
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Watchman Banks: Africa? 13 minutes ago
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Kofi-Djehuti Obibini: I was born in seattle, wa 12 minutes ago
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Mihoby Rabeharison @Shakka thanks for holding the light and keeping our history @Watchman Banks: i don't think anyone is trying to prove how smart they are. i think people intercede in conversations because they have LOVE for blackness and black people and they want you to love yourself - NOT THROUGH A EUROCENTRIC CENTER (which would be considered self-hate) - but love yourself as you are. see, i find it hurtful - for example, when black women perm their hair. it is a subtle message saying i'll take your god (the white one) as my own because i hate myself and cannot fathom, BECAUSE I LIVE WITHIN THE CONFINES F WHITE PATRIARCHY, that my nappy ass, curly hair - is not only beautiful AND SUPREME but an antenna to receive information. Now, how does this relate to this particular conversation. Well:
@Black Home Schoolers: Shakka is right, to be black and not venerate our ancestors is a bit of an oxymoron, for a number of reasons that Shakka has enumerated better than myself. i see we have not even bothered to delve into the spirituality native to this land, yet we live here and and those that came before us toiled this land. shame, shame, shame - for if we did, ancestor worship wouldn't be so........ from my limited understanding, the Lakota for example believe that, "tree spirit has a tree god. water spirit has a water god. etc.." (unless of course we still believe that men "evolved" from monkeys, hence "humankind" not having its own geneology or human spirit/god) in any case, if things did not have properties of their own, we could drink sand for water - but everything has it's own essence. as such, when we experience a drought, we ask water to fall - not a montheistic G-O-D to fall, but water not sand, but water. we hope for water! and besides, boxing our spirits or gods, or essences into ONE THING made it easy for colonizing pimp daddy dear to replace ONE just ONE god with an image/concept of himself. imagine him running around after all these dieties trying to muster the creativity to come up with new names for his multiple selves. so to tie it back to what i had written to mr. banks: being black and not venerating our ancestors and the elements of nature around us as ancestors is like perming your hair. now you could ridicule me and maybe this stuff that i'm saying goes right past you and that's ok. cause maybe that's what's needed to keep the veil in tact and protected from OYA, the billowing wind.
@Black Home Schoolers & Shakka: what can we do with our knowledge and our differences since a war has been waged on us? dem crackers don't care if u this or that - dey poison our water, pollute our air, cut down our trees, and dig in our graves just the same. i understand the importance of knowing who you are, where you came from: BUT WE ARE DYING AND THE GUN IS AIMED AT US. So, i'm looking to ya'll for answers BECAUSE you are Black Home Schoolers and BECAUSE you are Shakka
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Black Home Schoolers Mihoby as I stated before, We have been working for years towards sustainability and being off the grid. This is what we teach our people but sadly most don't listen. Our people don't know how to grow their own food, employ rain catching systems, generate electricity, use compost and natural fertilizers etc. This is what we teach as we know that they have plans for us.
Anybody who wants to know what we do and how we do it and how they can do it, we have almost completed a whole curriculum on beings self sufficient and off the grid.
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Black Home Schoolers As always, Kay's response is that of wisdom and understanding. We can not be wrapped up in self to the point of being out of touch with reality. While I
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Black Home Schoolers With all due respect, this discussion started out as a posted video showing a white woman who was tired of her own people for stealing another group's culture. This turned into a black on black attack of words and wisdom. We all have settled on who and where we came from, so I think respect for that is in order. I certainly agree with the fact that Kofi kept this as a reasonable discussion and not one declaring defeat of another.
No one has been defeated here, but what has happened is that this has shaped up to be a very impacting, interesting discussion. Good night all.
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Mihoby Rabeharison @Kay: to some people religion is a roadmap, to some it's a way of being. certain ways of being is not for us.... and in a simple manner of speaking, me not ascribing my greatness to my mama or my grandma - kind makes me a-historical, like u-know-who. except we ain't like u-know-who, we have monuments of historical greatness with which to use as a blueprint for life... or not. and in terms of the Wolof which i understand is a language and not really a cultural grouping, they ("Senegalese" folks) that i know - be them Laube, Serrer, or what have you - have used islam much the same way that vodoun practioners of haiti have used christianity. i may be wrong, but that's what i gathered while growing up there.
@Black Home Schoolers: that's what's up. i would love to learn about how to live offa da grid, particularly living in nyc. uncle sam done took enough of me. however, if so-called religious doctrine is imparted, it maybe difficult for me to concentrate on how to make electricity from copper boxes. but if not, i'd like to learn how to survive a bit more independently! 17 hours ago · Like Watchman Banks Mihoby, I get where your coming from on this hate for ones self, I was looking at a video of a black woman on stating about how much she hates black people. It was crazy, but this is what the media does to the youth. They program their minds t...o only like white but hate black. check out this video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9142171923095749295#
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Black Home Schoolers I don't serve religion Mihoby, but I do serve one God. But, I'm not speaking of religion, I'm talking real stuff like growing potatoes, raising healthy chickens that haven't been abused in a factory, having a scallion that can yield months of growth for your prepared meals right in your own living room.
I wish I could get the attention of enough black folk that took life serious enough to get ready for this storm and help us grow some food. lol. It is our goal to even have our own Talapia farm because it is a very tasty fish which grows to an edible healthy eating size within 8 weeks or less.
More importantly, someone needs to be concentrating on keeping our behinds warm if the Gov decides to over inflate the cost of Natural gas. So much to think about Mihoby, but your religion I will leave up to you.
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Mihoby Rabeharison @Black Home Schoolers - well, there you go, there are our differences and hopefully they are out of the way. u won't try to convert me and i won't try to convert you. hehehe..... at least not for now - just kidding.
i'm clear about what i think. for me it's more doing vs thinking... more hands in the earth/work - especially in a city. i'm actually growing my first little mint garden indoors cuz i use it so much in tea. yeah, i heard that it's legal to have a small chicken coop here in nyc...
where ya'll at? 16 hours ago · Like Horus Set @Black Home Schoolers
I've been following this debate on the other site I saw it posted on. I also saw Shakka's message which stated he was blocked from this discussion. After reading this debate in it's entirely I would be forced to say that Shakka more than responsibly proved each of his assertions, assertions that are posted here for all of us to see and read, here, on this page, so as not to make it appear as If I'm 'cheerleading' for the brother. My concern is scholarship and scholarship alone. The fact that this discussion is taking place on a page that asserts itself to be about education I would also be forced to admit that blocking the brother ...after he so generously contributed to the wealth of knowledge found here on this page speaks more to the true motives and idealogical predisposition of the moderator of this forum. When Black people began to censor other Black people as a consequence of ideological differences....it is the censor who is deemed 'Guilty in Plain Sight'. No where did I witness in this discussion an attempt by Shakka to censor anyone in anyway whatsoever. It would appear to me that the nature of your reciprocation for the brother's generosity of spirit should be roundly condemed by all who maintain even the slightest respect for education, and even more so by those who maintain a healthy respect for the right of black people to be heard by their own people.....whether we agree with them or not, and that includes their own paricular style of communicating; some people are abrasive and honest whilst others may be polite but small in spirit (spiteful and resentful for a sundry of reasons). To see that the brother has been addressed by Brother Watchman Banks and is unable respond due to the 'Christian like' behaviour of the moderator ( I employ the usage of that term in that it was Christian practice that sought to close and or censor all of the ancient centers of education and bring academia under it's unlearned control....hence it was Christianity that ushered in the European Dark Ages), I have made myself available for engaging Mr Banks (and anyone else for that matter) on the brothers behalf in that to support your Eurocentric like behaviour would be to equally be complicit in such behaviour. In short...who will defend black people if not other black people? I deem it necessary as well to address another isssue while I'm present. In reading the debate I found it quite unsettling that Kay Shabazz was not admonished for the flagrant disrespect she displayed in efforts to be antagonistic towards brother Shakka however polite a tone her derisive attacks may have been couched in. Double standards are evidently the 'choice tools' utilized on behalf of those who appeared to be on the losing end of the debate. Though you may block me (and that is quite alright) I think it would be a display of your own integrity to invite the brother back as darkness benefits no one, particularly those who were beneficial to the light the brother so generously shed on a subject very fer people in actuality have command of. How would you feel if you were in a fight and someone decided to bind your hands while the other person continued with their barrage. This is what you have subjected the brother to, and as I said previously , such 'Christian behaviour' (irrespective of what religion you believe yourself to suscribe to) bespeaks much more about the person who would 'anathematize' one of their own as a result of ideological differences. Democracy...born in Africa, is made to appear so fragile when held up to the light of Eurocentric dictatorship. Now...that being said I will address one last issue. In reading 'the debate' it would appear that certain questions were asked and comented on by the sister 'Kinshasa'. Following those questions and comments it would also appear that in inordinate amount of misinformation began to proclaimed as if what was being spoken on was factual. Again, it also appears that Shakka began to address, 'said misinformation', in a decisive and erudite way. Most who are not subject to academic rigorousness would be hard pressed to respond effectively and decisively when such grounded scholarship is carrying out it's primary function...to inform. It appears that remedial efforts at responding were made in an attempt to validate the beliefs of those who suscribe to the Abramic faiths. As any outclassed fighter would do, as is to be expected....an individual who was unprepared to be 'bested' by Shakka began to hit 'below' the belt casting aspersion, directing the initial dialogue awry from it's original intent: the intent it appears to me was to definitively answer questions posed by Kinshasa and statements made by Malikl and yourself. It would appear to any discerning eye who would only but take the time to read the entire forum that it was Kay Shabazz who surreptitiously changed the nature of an epistemologically based discussion/debate to one of 'beliefs' and value judgement thereby bringing in the divisive tool of religion to what began as an academic inquiry by multiple people in this forum. No one until now has called her to task for this furtive, albeit discreet behaviour. It would appear that those victimized by the doctrines of colonizers are equally skilled in the same 'guile - like' behaviour of the authors of those imposed doctrines. It would appear that Dr. John Henrik Clarke was correct, as he usually is. It's unfortunate when being correct is an unfortunate thing. I have said what needed to be said.
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Horus Set @Bro. Watchman Banks
I will address your claims shortly. Please allow me time to cook for my son. When I am done...I will address all that has been posited since Shakka was undeservedly anathematized by the moderator of this forum....if I too do not suffer a similar fate. I would posit this to those of you on this page who suscribe to Abrahmic doctrine (in it's myriad mutations); If God decides that it's time for you to hear a message, who are we to determine what tone the messenger of this message should be spoken in? If that message comes from a person who's style and delivery may not be to your liking does that divest the message of it's import? Shakka's presence on this page was not by chance, as nothing is....all is 'Math'.
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@Black Home Schoolers
For blocking Shakka and whatever message it was that he had to share, it is you and you alone on this page who must atone for such self serving behaviour. By doing so you have done all on this page a disservice. I would also posit respectfully so that if censorship is your answer to resolving ideological differences with your own people then perhaps you may wish to apply for employment with the FCC or the The Ecclesiastic offices of the Catholic Archdiocese. Both pay rather well and would assist you greatly with your efforts at 'living off the grid'. Ironic isn't it that one so passionate about 'living off the grid' has yet to disengage from the Spiritual grid construct furnished us by our historical tormentors. The irony of it all....don't you think? It takes wit to percieve irony where others may not, so perhaps you do not.
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Black Home Schoolers Has nothing to do with whose educating whom but the brother's assertion that we are foolish for believing in scripture. Who can declare to have a monopoly on truth, No one.
As stated before, this discussion started out as a posted video showing a white woman who was tired of her own people for stealing another group's culture. This turned into a black on black attack of words and wisdom. We all have settled on who and where we came from, so I think respect for that is in order. I certainly agree with the fact that Kofi kept this as a reasonable discussion and not one declaring defeat of another.
No one has been defeated here, but what has happened is that this has shaped up to be a very impacting, interesting discussion. To assert or insinuate that all things Egypt or Africa are the only truth's is questionable. We do realize that the Africa is the birthplace of all of humanity but Africa, in and of itself could not and would not exist if it were not for our creator.
I don't subscribe to the belief that the black man is God because if we are then we are getting our butts beat by our own creation. lol
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Black Home Schoolers Horus, don't be offended if all blacks don't believe as you and Shakka believe. We are aware of our African origin but we see and have a different revelation as to who we are and why we were brought here to America as slaves.
For the record, I did not block Shakka, I only un-friended him and didn't realize that this would block him from the conversation. I must however say that Shakka did display arrogance in his attempt to educate while others simply stated their piece and moved on. I don't like to argue with anyone but a fair and deep discussion minus the insults are welcomed. 15 hours ago · Like · 1 person Watchman Banks Horus,are you serious? You guys look at this like a real debate huh? Good luck, nice discussion.
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Mihoby Rabeharison @Horus: i'll cheerlead if u referee?! a home run is a home run!lol
but on the real though, this is a facebook page. shakka was dropping knowledge and tearing it up! do we really need to get into this type of language, "it is you and you alone on this page who must atone for such self serving behaviour." so what if homeschoolers un-friended or blocked shakka? that don't change your access to what he has to offer. homeschoolers may have been upset and wouldn't you be if your world was shook? it's like telling auntie mae that jesus is like santa clause. what is your aim?
i sorta get it, you didn't appreciate how they, "hit below the belt," but are you any different from ms. shabazz in saying, "I would also posit respectfully so that if censorship is your answer to resolving ideological differences with your own people then perhaps you may wish to apply for employment with the FCC or the The Ecclesiastic offices of the Catholic Archdiocese." your sarcasm is neither searing nor funny. besides most of us don't qualify for a verbal spar with shakka. that's his gift. reprimanding ms. shabazz, as you so suggest, would be like telling a kitten to play nice with a lion.... if she was a smart kitty she would know better
so maybe i'll cheerlead the first half and ref the second!
@PEOPLE: i am from madagascar. i grew up in West Africa. in my country, as in most of africa, i don't even have access to my own resources. they are owned by the IMF and the WORLD BANK. i cannot just get sugar cane from the fields because guards with machine guns will shoot me down. and WHO is brave enough to take the bullet so we can eat! where is the BLACK ARMY? THE BLACK NATION? THE JEWS GOT A NATION. IT'S CALLED AMERICA
like i said to brother kofi: what is it to know how to own your own garden if you don't even own your mind. i get it - decolonization is tough for all of us. let's not front. so many of our leaders had some of sallie mae's good vanilla whipped cream. i am not better than you. in one way or another we all report to the same plantation. maybe you did the work and you're sovereign and don't pay taxes, but if i'm not mistaken, you do pay taxes when you go buy agave at the store. anyways - i went off on a tangent.
like a griot, shakka can teach us how to own our minds; and the homeschoolers, like agriculturalists can teach us how to till the land. we need it all - all the information that we can get, cause now what? are we harboring negative feelings, thinking to ourselves what can i say as a next rebuttle that no one can refute. meanwhile WE DON'T OWN AFRICA! AND THE BRITISH MUSEUM OWNS KEMET.
in all fairness Horus Set, i don't mean to be getting in your a**, this is sort of for everybody, so i apologize. my responses were initially spurred by your comments, but retrospectively, they go for everyone, including myself.
WE DON'T OWN SHIT. WE HARDLY OWN OUR OWN MINDS. AND GIVEN ALL THAT WE HAVE SAID ABOUT OUR SPLENDOR AND GRANDEUR HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE THAT WE DON'T OWN SHIT AND WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING EPISTEMOLOGY?!
so as my dear friend, partner, and lover would say: BUS YO GUNS! much peace and love to this soldier, a strong black brother: BLACKAMERICA
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Horus Set @WatchmanBanks
You were courageous enough to address a competent academic adversary who is unjustifiably unable to respond. Before you take leave and dismiss those present as incapable of responding to your fallacious assertions...why don't you stick around to defend your plagiarized doctrine? After all...you made some 'scholarly' claims that have yet to be addressed. There's been enough questionable behaviour by those 'under the influence' of Abraham. I will began by addressing your first volley and the others in the order they were posted. Shakka's method was quite succinct therefore i will follow suit as commendable methods are to be emulated:
1. "Shakka, I think you missed the point of what Blackhomeschoolers was trying to say,"
I've read this entire dialouge and would catatgorize that statement as an unsolicited opinion therefore it has no bearing on anything whatsoever.
2. "maybe it’s because you are trying so hard to prove how educated you are."
It didn't seem to me as if the brother was putting forth great effort in dispensing the cited evidence he posited. It appears as if his command of the subject matter allowed him to do so with ease.
3. "Let me simplify this for you by asking a question. Where did the Hebrew Language come from?
Rephrase your question....it was poorly asked. If your referring to so-called 'modern Hebrew' then specify such. If youre referring to Paleo or Classical Hebrew then please specify. Suffice it to say that the no group of people attested to in the historical annals ever invented an alphabet therefore people assuming this fictitious identity rely on languages created by others, just as they rely on the myths and stories of others. Their whole identity is appropriated. Only one group of people in the Ancient world invented an alphabet, the Black African people of Ancient Egypt:
"The world's oldest known alphabet was developed in central Egypt around 2000 B.C.E. from a hieroglyphic prototype, and over the next 500 years spread to Canaan and eventually to the rest of the world."
NEW WORLD ENCYCLOPEDIA
"The world's oldest known alphabet was developed in central Egypt around 2000 BC from a hieroglyphic prototype, and over the next 500 years spread to Canaan and eventually to the rest of the world."
WIKIPEDIA
"The world's oldest known alphabet was developed in central Egypt around 2000 BC from a hieroglyphic prototype, and over the next 500 years spread to Canaan and eventually to the rest of the world."
ANCIENT HISTORY ENCYCLOPEDIA
Need I say more? I think not.
Prior to this no Hebrew Language existed because there existed no alphabet from which this fictitious people could construct their language.
2. "Did it have it’s origin from black people? Or did it come from the white so called Jews in Israel?
So called Hebrew is a hybrid language as is everything else about those suscribing to this manufactured identity. You'll find elements of various languages as should be expected when dealing with a transient people. In whatever country you find people suscribing to that identity it follows that you will find aspects of the language of their host country in the language. It is more than likely that Hebrew as a language is not as old as most people would like to believe it is. The worlds oldest Synagogue is in Greece (hmmm wonder why) and is dated as recent as 150 and 128 BCE (2nd century respectively, a rather late date to be getting their show on the road even if i say so myself). Unfortunately we cannot even give the Delos Synagogue a 2nd century BCE dating as it has proven that the so-called Synagogue is not even what Jewish apologists claim it to be.
You proably cannot measure the sickness of the people youre dealing with respect to the 'Jewish Identity'. These people are so psychologically convoluted that they claim the oldest synagogue in the world is Delos in the Greek Isles.
I. Delos Synagogue-
The synagogue of Delos, Greece, is the oldest synagogue known today, its origin dating between 150 and 128 BCE.
Wikipedia
II. In the same breath they say the 'Jericho Synagogue' is the 'oldest Synagogue' in the world.
"The Wadi Qelt Synagogue, located in Wadi Qelt south of Jericho, is the oldest known synagogue that has ever been found."
Oldest Synagogue Found in Israel (March 29, 1998. Associated Press) Wikipedia
Give me a break....this from the very same people who own the press the publishing compinies and underwiters of the top Uiversities of the world? Mind control is the name of the game and if yuo don't watch out you'll be a victim as much of the dialogue on this page already attests to.
The problem suffered by most who do not understand the nature of the beast we are dealing with is that they cannot concieve just how far this proverbial rabbit hole goes. Their minds are not hardwired for it. What most people cannot appreciate about Jews is that they are the Christopher Columbus' of the modern world (and of the Medieval world as well, as it is no irony that Christoph Columb was himself in fact a Jew:
Columbus a Catalan 'Converso: "He was a 'converso', a person born into a Jewish family who later converted to Christianity"
'Christopher Columbus: The DNA of his Writings'. Estelle Irizarry, of Georgetown University
I mention this to impress upon you a nasty jewish habit. Just as Columbus named and claimed things he found that existed before he did, so too does Jewry as community engage in this same behaviour. They literarily incarnate themselves into antiquity by subsuming things created in the time of antiquity by stamping their 'name' on it....by simply saying..."this thing is Jewish". By doing so they successfully graph themselves onto a history that cannot and will never be substantiated by the historical record. They will find anything buried in the dirt and say...'This is Jewish'. When you underwrite universities you also determine what is 'True' when the circumstances dictate. This is what theyve done with the people of antiquity from which they stole their fabricated identity. The fact that cultures they may have stolen from may have been black cultures in no way implies that these antiquitous people self identified as anything even remotely related to the term 'Hebrew' or 'Jew', or even 'Isrealite' for that matter. So we look silly running around referring to our ancestors as 'Jews' or 'Hebrews' or even' Isrealites'. They are all fictitious terms. The 'Merneptah Stela's supposed mention of the term 'Israel' is speculative at best as no one can say for sure what the traslators themselves base this premise on, as they have all been Europoids.
A perfect example....most people are under the false impression that so called Hebrew 'scripture' dates back to BC times, when in fact they date back no earlier than the 9th and 10th century respectively.....go figure. The Masoretic Text, the Tanakh, and the Hebrew Bible are all one and the same:
Tanakh-
"The Tanakh, pronounced [taˈnaχ] or [təˈnax]; also Tenakh, Tenak) is a name used in Judaism for the canon of the Hebrew Bible. The Tanakh IS ALSO KNOWN as the MASORETIC TEXT or the Miqra."
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh
Masoretic Text-
"The oldest extant manuscripts of the Masoretic Text date from approximately the NINTH CENTURY, and the Aleppo Codex (once the oldest complete copy of the Masoretic Text, but now missing its Torah section) dates from the TENTH CENTURY."
Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoretic_Text)
This ladies and gentleman is the biggest hoax ever played on all of you. I look forward to your responses. Especially yours Watchman.
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Horus Set @WatchmanBanks
1. "Many of the Black Hebrew Israelites have this book you are referring to, and they use this book to point out that the original people of the Hebrew language and customs are black people."
I too own an origial black leatherbound copy of the book in question and I can assure that Mr Williams 'scholarship' makes for the conjecture of an unlearned man groping in the dark attempting to piece together things he doesn't quite understand. When the confused follw the confused....the only thing sure to get passed on as 'fact' is more confusion. Both Shakka and I have parents who are members of the Akan ethnic group as the Ashanti amongst a few ethnic groups are designated by Mr Williams as 'Jews'. I can assure you none in the ranks would take such a hypothesis seriously as we know our linneage intimately. Black Hebrew Isrealites seek to justify basless historical mythology as a means of asserting cultural and ethnic identity. Looking to white people to validate other stories written by other white people as a testimony to who we are as a people is just more backward behaviour of a people who are still slumbering in the stupor of misinformation spoonfed to them from by the former slave masters of this country. In other words...they just can't seem to get enough of Masters lie.....so they run from one master to the next seeking nonexistent validation hence they are relegated to the slow lane of 'belief' and 'faith' as opposed to knowledge and verified fact. What I refer to as 'fools by choice'. That's how Harriet Tubman referred to to those slaves who refused to stop sucking at the "Massa's ol Nipples". The only thing that can wake one up is knowledge and facts....not conjecture and speculation by incompetent European 'scholars'. If your going to quote a European scholar at least quote the competent ones....whose works are independently corroborated by a body of verified cited evidence, because in the end it's the evidence that has the last word.
2."This is what the women in the video is saying. The book you mentioned actually confirms the point we are all trying to make."
http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/hebrewism.htm
No the book only confirms what you have already been programmed to believe is true without taking an in depth look at the documentation and authoritatve, cited references that hold up to rigorous academic scrutiny. You hav already been saddled with a plethora of definitions most of which are historically inaccurate and when you identify it in something being passed off as a 'scholarly' work you say " Oh!! See, there it is!!!". You've just put on the spectacles of those Europeans equally as misguided as you are and so you therefore see the world through there eyes never once taking into consideration what the evidence and facts have to say.
Shakka listed cited verifiable source after source and no one here addressed any one of them nor have you yet to successfully refute him. In a university setting I can assure you that it is you who would be peered at queringly so.
3. "Listen to this statement a brother makes about the book “Hebrewisms of West Africa” at http://hebrewisms.blogspot.com/
“When I decided to read Joseph J. Williams’ book – I believe it was mentioned on a list of books by one of the African scholars I had recently read – I went into it hoping to find more facts to build a Biblical case for the African migration of the Israelites of original Northern Africa and Palestine. I have long held the notion the bulk of the true Israelites did in fact head to the east, west, and north and south of the African Continent. Mr. Williams book has confirmed my assertion."
The problem is that Mr Williams based his assertion on incorrect preconcieved notions of a false biblical past. The 'brother' cites no evidence whatsoever. At what point do you see the rediculousness of it all?. All of these same African ethnic groups have histories that locate them in the Nile Valley....not as Hebrew slaves but as members of a flourishing society to which they contributed and were the recipients of contributions in return. The problem on this page is the profound ignorance of African history on this page.:
"Egypt was the node and center of a vast web linking the strands of Africa's main cultures and languages. The light that crystallized at the center of this early world had been energized by the cultural electricity streaming FROM the HEARTLAND of Africa"
DR. IVAN VAN SERTIMA (RUTGERS UNIVERSITY) EGYPT REVISTED (Intro. para.4 pp. 3-4) JOURNAL OF AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS publ. 1989
This their past....not some mythological fantasies held by Black people who find it utterly impossible to divest themselves of the white mans fairytale. You all simply have a love affair with the Bible that you refuse to relinquish....on what grounds I could never even begin to imagine other than. the psychological impact of Christianity hit us so hard that for many of us there's just no recovering. The only antidote I can think of is serious study.
4."You also stated: "The term 'Hebrew' is itself a ficticious term and implies absolutely nothing."
First of all the so called 'classical' term for the people you continue to misnomer 'Hebrew' is 'Ivrim'
"The modern word "Hebrew" is derived from the word "ivri" (plural "ivrim") one of several names for the Jewish people. It is traditionally understood to be an adjective based on the name of Abraham's ancestor, Eber mentioned in Genesis 10:21. This name is possibly based upon the root "`avar" (עבר) meaning "to cross over" and homiletical interpretations of the term "ivrim" link it to this verb. In the Bible, "Hebrew" is called Yehudith (יהודית) because Judah (Yehuda) was the surviving kingdom at the time of the quotation, late 8th century BCE (Is 36, 2 Kings 18). In Isaiah 19:18, it is also called the "Language of Canaan" (שְׂפַת כְּנַעַן)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language
it is derived from Biblical literature alone and is therefore more than likely false as are most biblical assertions.
If you really would like to be more academically aquainted with more scholarly assertions for the origin of the term and the people then I stongly suggest you research the terms 'Habiru' and 'Shasu', though most scholars have ruled the Shasu out, though it still makes for great reading if one ist have a command of the subject matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habiru
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shasu
At the bottom of the following page is a photo of the Shasu... tell me if they look black to you.
http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html
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Horus Set @WatchmanBanks
1. "WHAT? Try making that bold statement at a University and see how they respond to you."
Well let's see my last lecture at Jersey State college resulted in pretty hefty honorarium and a return invite so I guess that that. Or perhaps they would respond the same way they responded when they read this at the Institute of Archeology University of Chicago:
"The publication of papyrus in the British museum revealed the author, Amenenope (the Ancient Egyptian scribe)! ALL OLD TESTAMENT SCHOLARS OF ANY WEIGHT OR STANDING NOW RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT THIS WHOLE SECTION OF ABOUT A CHAPTER AND A HALF OF THE BOOK OF PROVERBS 'IS LARGELY DRAWN VERBATIM FROM THE WISDOM OF AMENENOPE (the Ancient Egyptian scribe); THAT IS THE HEBREW VERSION IS PRACTICALLY A LITERAL TRANSLATION FROM THE EGYPTIAN. It is also likewise OBVIOUS that in numerous other places in the Old Testament not only in the Book of Proverbs, but ALSO in the HEBREW LAW, in JOB, as we already noticed in SAMUEL and JEREMIAH, AMENENOPE'S WISDOM IS THE SOURCE of ideas, figures,moral standards, and especially certain warm and humane spirit of kindness"
Professor James H. Breasted Egyptologist & Profess. THE ORIENTAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
2. "The Hebrew Language is more that 3000 years old"
That is a lie. The languages it borrowed from are perhaps that old. The loan words it recieved from parent languages may perhaps be that old....but 'Hebrew'? Even that term is not a BC term.
3. "The earliest well-attested Hebrew writing is the Gezer calendar, which (based on the paleographic style of the text) has been dated to around 925-900 BCE.
A recent discovery, that MAY be Hebrew"
Let's stop right THERE: MAY BE HEBREW?
Are you seriously presenting something to me that these pseudo Biblical wanna be anthropologists don't even know what it is themselves? These idiots are so rapacious and do desperate to graph thhemselves onto a nonexistent history that they will have someone like you making claims for Massa when even the article you provided says they themselves do not even know what it is. There they go attaching their name to something before they even reach the stage of fact. And you had the nerve to ask me if i was serious? No the question would seem to me is...are you serious?
and may be earlier than the Gezer Calender, is a pottery shard bearing five lines of text, from the site of Khirbet Qeiyafa southwest of Jerusalem. It was found in the same layer as some burnt olive pits that could be radiocarbon dated to around 1050-970 BCE, and was written using the Proto-Canaanite script. This find needs more analysis, including translation, to confirm its age and that it really is a Hebrew text.
Now I am not trying to get into a big debate about this, just trying to state the facts. It is what it is
You have the nerve to present all of this conjecture and speculation as fact when a literate person like my self can read well enough to see tha these people have no idea of what they are looking at....yet mental midgets are screaming Hebrew at the top of their lungs. I'm sorry...I mean no disrespect but I have to be honest. As condescendingly as you addressed everyone with your statement "you people really think this is a debate"? One thing is for sure ..if it was..you definitely would be on the losing end of it.....and yes people grow up. In debates there are winners and losers, that's why theyre called debates. They are hamless. The only thing that gets bruised often are egos, and trust me, the bigger your ego the more sensitive the bruise and it is usually the most sensitive that will act out innapropriately first.
"Unfortunately there is not a shred of evidence outside the Bible to corroborate these claims."
Gary Greenberg President of The BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY SOCIETY OF NEW YORK
In December 2004 Jerusalem antiquities dealer Oded Golan and several accomplices were indicted by the Israeli police for FORGING ARTIFACTS, frequently by adding spurious inscriptions to genuinely ancient pieces. The case underlined the importance of preserving the archaeological record from contamination through fraud, looting, and the commercial antiquities trade.
"Supposedly, an Israelite empire flourished in the 10th century BC, during a time of temporary weakness of both Assyria and Egypt. Yet the fabled empire of David and Solomon remains just that: a fable, unsupported by any evidence – and empires normally leave a great deal of evidence."
The Bible Unearthed (Simon & Schuster, 2001) Israel Finkelstein, Neil Silberman,
"Solomon ... in the eyes of Israelite historians, marked the apex of Israelite achievement. Curiously, no reference to him or his father David, or their empire in a non-Israelite source is known ... "
– Isserlin (The Israelites, p72)
"... in Jerusalem nothing has as yet been brought to light which can be ascribed to Solomon..." – Isserlin, p81.
REAL ARCHAEOLOGY 101
In the 1950s, Yigael Yadin – Israeli Defence Chief of Staff turned 'archaeologist' – decided that the ruins of Megiddo, Hazor and Gezer were the legendary 'Fortress Cities' of Solomon. "Our great guide was the Bible" he said. Thus he confirmed the Bible with the Bible. This was despite an ABSENCE of any find at the sites naming Solomon – but a CARTOUCHE NAMING PHARAOH AMEN HOTEP III INSTEAD. In other words....the biblical authors lied
REAL ARCHAEOLOGY 101
But of course there is nothing 'curious' about a non-existent 'empire' (stretching 'from the Euphrates to Egypt') leaving no evidence of its non-existence. Modern Israel is peppered with 'Solomon's monuments' – but NOT ONE of them has any genuine claim to the appellation.
REAL ARCHAEOLOGY 101 9 hours ago · Like Horus Set @WatchmanBanks
"Solomon's Mines? American rabbi-archaeologist Nelson Glueck so-named the copper mining at Timna (30 km. north of Eilat) in the 1930s. They were, in fact, Egyptian mines, as hieroglyphs and the near-by temple of Hathor attest".
REAL ARCHAEOLOGY 101
David and Solomon are portrayed in the Bible as two of the greatest kings of the ancient world. However, no trace of their empire has ever been found in Palestine. It is a period curiously missing from the archaeological record of the region. Quoting from the book, Archaeology of the Land of the Bible, "The Bible is the only written source concerning the United Monarchy, and it is therefore the basis of any historical presentation of the period."(1) There is such a complete void of external sources that the archaeologist, author and leading authority on the era, Donald Redford, writes in frustration that "such topics as the foreign policy of David and Solomon, Solomon's trade in horses or his marriage to Pharaoh's daughter must remain themes for midrash and FICTIONAL TREATMENT."
The STORY of Solomon was PATTERNED specifically after the life of AMENHOTEPIII. The name Solomon itself, which literally means "peace" or "safety" points to Amenhotep III whose long and pervasive reign in the 14th Century B.C. did not include any major military campaigns, but was characterized by unprecedented stability throughout the Near East 2. Amenhotep III, known in ancient times as the "King of Kings" and "Ruler of Ruler's," was a Pharaoh of Egypt's glorious 18th Dynasty. He, like Solomon, inherited a vast empire whose influence extended quite literally from the Nile to the Euphrates. In CONTRAST to the empire of Solomon, the empire of Amenhotep is INDISPUTABLE. 3. The buildings, monuments, documents, art, and numerous other vestiges of his reign are ubiquitous and unparalleled (with the possible exception being those left by the 19th Dynasty Pharaoh, Ramses II).
4. The administration and taxation system of Amenhotep with its 12 districts is IDENTICAL TO THAT OF SOLOMON as described in the Bible (1 Kings 4:2-7,27; 5:13; 9:23). Amenhotep also dedicated himself to rediscovering the wisdom, mysteries and traditions of earlier Egyptian Dynasties. A strong relationship has been established between the "Proverbs of Solomon" in the Bible and the "Maxims of Amenhotep III" found in Egypt. 5. The court of Amenhotep III was an extremely liberal one, and reflected every possible excess of an affluent and secure kingdom. Eroticism in art and court life reached its height during the reign of Amenhotep.The famous "nude dancing girls" mural dates to Amenhotep's reign. As with Solomon, Amenhotep denied himself nothing "his eyes desired" and "refused his heart no pleasure" (Ecclesiastes 2:10). 6.
In addition to the projects already mentioned, Amenhotep also built a completely new palace complex in Thebes. The new royal residence INCLUDED ALL of the elements contained in the palace complex of Solomon which are described in the Bible (1 Kings 7:2-12), namely: 7. a house made almost entirely out of cedars of Lebanon (built for Amenhotep's Jubilee festival); a colonnade (hall of columns) fronted by a portico (porch) and surrounded by a column-lined courtyard; 8. a throne room built with many wooden columns and whose floor was a painted lake scene (identical to the one crossed in wonder by the Queen of Sheba when she approached the throne of Solomon, as described in the Koran);a separate palace built for Sitamun, "the daughter of Pharaoh;"a royal palace (consisting of his own residence, the residence of his Great Wife, Tiye, and a residence for the royal harem).
9. The network of Egyptian 18th Dynasty garrison cities also included Jerusalem. If construction by Amenhotep III at Gezer, Hazor, Megiddo and other garrison cities is any indication, then a magnificent temple undoubtedly was also built by Amenhotep on Jerusalem's venerated Temple Mount.
10. The structure adjacent to Jerusalem's Temple Mount, known traditionally as "Solomon's stables," is consistent with the architecture of Amenhotep's garrison cities. Archaeology has also confirmed that chariots were kept in these cities during his reign in groups of between thirty to one hundred and fifty each.
11. Solomon NEVER existed. It was Pharaoh Amen Hotep whom the Bible writers attempted to literarily co-op. And it stands to reason as the Archeological evidence has concluded...that none of the other Biblical patriarchs existed as well. Oh, Santa Clause didn't exist either. But Pharaoh Amen Hotep did.
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Watchman Banks @Horus
ok, great now what? You kicked your knowledge, what did you get? We all have knowledge, everybody on this board. I can sit here on this board and do some taring down and go on a mind trip about how I defeated some guys on a blog. Who cares? While we are fighting over bits of knowledge and ego tripping, we as a people have been destroyed, enslaved, impoverished and diseased by people we a suppose to be superior to. Why? can you answer that? Why?
Now I have the answer to this, and I know how it can be changed. Many on this broad don't believe in the scriptures, but look at this passage here, read it all. This passage depicts the black man as a people in every country, nation and village. There is non other people on this earth that fits this passage in the Bible other than black people.
Deuteronomy 28:15-68
15 But if you do not give ear to the voice of the Lord your God, and take care to do all his orders and his laws which I give you today, then all these curses will come on you and overtake you: 16 You will be cursed in the town and cursed in the field. 17 A curse will be on your basket and on your bread-basin. 18 A curse will be on the fruit of your body, and on the fruit of your land, on the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock. 19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out. 20 The Lord will send on you cursing and trouble and punishment in everything to which you put your hand, till sudden destruction overtakes you; because of your evil ways in which you have been false to me. 21 The Lord will send disease after disease on you, till you have been cut off by death from the land to which you are going. 22 The Lord will send wasting disease, and burning pain, and flaming heat against you, keeping back the rain till your land is waste and dead; so will it be till your destruction is complete. 23 And the heaven over your heads will be brass, and the earth under you hard as iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust, sending it down on you from heaven till your destruction is complete. 25 The Lord will let you be overcome by your haters: you will go out against them one way, and you will go in flight before them seven ways: you will be the cause of fear among all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your bodies will be meat for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth; there will be no one to send them away. 27 The Lord will send on you the disease of Egypt, and other sorts of skin diseases which nothing will make well. 28 He will make your minds diseased, and your eyes blind, and your hearts wasted with fear: 29 You will go feeling your way when the sun is high, like a blind man for whom all is dark, and nothing will go well for you: you will be crushed and made poor for ever, and you will have no saviour. 30 You will take a wife, but another man will have the use of her: the house which your hands have made will never be your resting-place: you will make a vine-garden, and never take the fruit of it. 31 Your ox will be put to death before your eyes, but its flesh will not be your food: your ass will be violently taken away before your face, and will not be given back to you: your sheep will be given to your haters, and there will be no saviour for you. 32 Your sons and your daughters will be given to another people, and your eyes will be wasted away with looking and weeping for them all the day: and you will have no power to do anything. 33 The fruit of your land and all the work of your hands will be food for a nation which is strange to you and to your fathers; you will only be crushed down and kept under for ever: 34 So that the things which your eyes have to see will send you out of your minds. 35 The Lord will send a skin disease, attacking your knees and your legs, bursting out from your feet to the top of your head, so that nothing will make you well. 36 And you, and the king whom you have put over you, will the Lord take away to a nation strange to you and to your fathers; there you will be servants to other gods of wood and stone. 37 And you will become a wonder and a name of shame among all the nations where the Lord will take you. 38 You will take much seed out into the field, and get little in; for the locust will get it. 39 You will put in vines and take care of them, but you will get no wine or grapes from them; for they will be food for worms. 40 Your land will be full of olive-trees, but there will be no oil for the comfort of your body; for your olive-tree will give no fruit. 41 You will have sons and daughters, but they will not be yours; for they will go away prisoners into a strange land. 42 All your trees and the fruit of your land will be the locust's. 43 The man from a strange land who is living among you will be lifted up higher and higher over you, while you go down lower and lower. 44 He will let you have his wealth at interest, and will have no need of yours: he will be the head and you the tail. 45 And all these curses will come after you and overtake you, till your destruction is complete; because you did not give ear to the voice of the Lord your God, or keep his laws and his orders which he gave you: 46 These things will come on you and on your seed, to be a sign and a wonder for ever; 47 Because you did not give honour to the Lord your God, worshipping him gladly, with joy in your hearts on account of all your wealth of good things; 48 For this cause you will become servants to those whom the Lord your God will send against you, without food and drink and clothing, and in need of all things: and he will put a yoke of iron on your neck till he has put an end to you. 49 The Lord will send a nation against you from the farthest ends of the earth, coming with the flight of an eagle; a nation whose language is strange to you;
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Watchman Banks 50 A hard-faced nation, who will have no respect for the old or mercy for the young: 51 He will take the fruit of your cattle and of your land till death puts an end to you: he will let you have nothing of your grain or wine or oil or any of the increase of your cattle or the young of your flock, till he has made your destruction complete. 52 Your towns will be shut in by his armies, till your high walls, in which you put your faith, have come down: his armies will be round your towns, through all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 And your food will be the fruit of your body, the flesh of the sons and daughters which the Lord your God has given you; because of your bitter need and the cruel grip of your haters. 54 That man among you who is soft and used to comfort will be hard and cruel to his brother, and to his dear wife, and to of those his children who are still living; 55 And will not give to any of them the flesh of his children which will be his food because he has no other; in the cruel grip of your haters on all your towns. 56 The most soft and delicate of your women, who would not so much as put her foot on the earth, so delicate is she, will be hard-hearted to her husband and to her son and to her daughter; 57 And to her baby newly come to birth, and to the children of her body; for having no other food, she will make a meal of them secretly, because of her bitter need and the cruel grip of your haters on all your towns. 58 If you will not take care to do all the words of this law, recorded in this book, honouring that name of glory and of fear, THE LORD YOUR GOD; 59 Then the Lord your God will make your punishment, and the punishment of your seed, a thing to be wondered at; great punishments and cruel diseases stretching on through long years. 60 He will send on you again all the diseases of Egypt, which were a cause of fear to you, and they will take you in their grip. 61 And all the diseases and the pains not recorded in the book of this law will the Lord send on you till your destruction is complete. 62 And you will become a very small band, though your numbers were like the stars of heaven; because you did not give ear to the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and increasing you, so the Lord will take pleasure in cutting you off and causing your destruction, and you will be uprooted from the land which you are about to take as your heritage. 64 And the Lord will send you wandering among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other: there you will be servants to other gods, of wood and stone, gods of which you and your fathers had no knowledge. 65 And even among these nations there will be no peace for you, and no rest for your feet: but the Lord will give you there a shaking heart and wasting eyes and weariness of soul: 66 Your very life will be hanging in doubt before you, and day and night will be dark with fears, and nothing in life will be certain: 67 In the morning you will say, If only it was evening! And at evening you will say, If only morning would come! Because of the fear in your hearts and the things which your eyes will see. 68 And the Lord will take you back to Egypt again in ships, by the way of which I said to you, You will never see it again: there you will be offering yourselves as men-servants and women-servants to your haters for a price, and no man will take you.
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Black Home Schoolers: Well more importantly, I agree with the commenter Mihoby, we as a people don’t own anything so then we must ask ourselves what can godship do for us. By the way I don’t subscribe to being a Christian or part of any religion but I do serve the Most high in heaven, whatever his true name and Identity is.
Can we take an Egyptian, African heritage to the bank and cash it to pay our bills? Can we use it to stop the bloodshed amongst our people? Will it help to restore us again as a great people? Will it prevent the police from tasing one of us? Will it stop them from unloading 40 rounds into an unarmed black man? Can it bring back our people that have died during the slave trade. Will it resurrect those that were lynched by our oppressors. Will it help our children that are locked in public school institutions with no hope of a real education? Can it redeem those of us wrongly imprisoned for crimes we didn’t commit? Will if help us to stop the racial injustices that seem to be spiraling out of control against our people? Will an Egyptian, African heritage keep the government from inflicting institutional racism against our people? Will it bring back the little black girl who was gunned down in Detroit by a white cop who was show boating for the cameras? Will it bring back the black professional banker from Atlanta, Georgia that was shot and killed by a New Jersey police who couldn’t get his lie straight? Will all the black Pharoahs help to us today to overcome the destructions in our black neighborhoods? Will our people go and reclaim the lands stolen from us with this information? Can this heritage stop the continued modern day slavery of our brothers and sisters from Haiti, trapped in the Dominican republic on slave sugar plantations. Will it somehow morph into an opportunity for our people to recover all the wealth that has been transferred to white pockets?
Please help me to understand how all of this info shared can bring about economic recovery for the Black People all over this world?
If you can’t provide the answer to all of the above, please bring us back into current times with some real solutions to a people who have allowed the whites to just kick our behinds. Were we so weak that a group of so called white mutants could enslave us and take away our grandeur? Or could this be a God thing? Did God do this to us? Either God did it or we are just Weak.
Lastly, it was said that blacks have been around for 197,000 years. With that I ask why did it take us so long to make a mark on the world. Why is it that our earliest great civilizations such as Egypt are less than 10,000 years old and we couldn’t keep control of it as long as you claim to have been on this earth. In a nut shell who can claim greatness based on our recent history of being enslaved, impoverished, raped, robbed, mistreated and abused by a race of white people that you claim are inferior to us and comes out of us as mutants. WERE WE THAT WEAK OR DID GOD ALMIGHTY ABASE US? Something to think about. And if you don’t want to think about it give an explanation for our utter weakness as a people.
